Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Bedford White]

4 minutes ago, juansanchezbrotosbrother said:

Calling one before the commons vote will only strengthen May's hand in my opinion and make Labour look like Brexit saboteurs. Can't guarantee that DUP or enough Tories will vote her down. ERG are off their nuts but actively bringing down a Tory government might be too much for them to stomach the now. 

Difficult call. ERG and DUP are so fucking mad (literally) that abstentions are possible. Following a vote on WA  which will be defeated they will have achieved their aim and may rally behind her in a VONC. Anger abounds in these two groups at the moment that could be dissipated in a months time. 

[Guest Jedi]

9 minutes ago, Bedford White said:

It was all that and more. It was to halt the rise of a party with 1 MP taking votes from the Tories in 2015 GE. 

It sure was, and a party which polled at around 3% to boot. Corbyn can call a VONC next week if he wants,...as suggested even the ERG won't bring down their own govt. Unless the DUP abstain on that (they could do), no chance of it passing. On second thoughts, the DUP would see it as a way for Corbyn to get into Downing St, so no chance.

2nd Ref could well be held up due to the reasons mentioned. Extension to Article 50 could happen mid-January though, to take the pressure off a 2nd vote timescale. Can't see any other outcome at the moment however...her deal-no chance, voted down mid Jan, no deal...no chance as no majority for it in the Commons, GE- no chance due to Tories not backing it, so....2nd Ref the only way out of the blockage. 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Jedi

[Bedford White]

1 minute ago, Jedi said:

It sure was, and a party which polled at around 3% to boot. Corbyn can call a VONC next week if he wants,...as suggested even the ERG won't bring down their own govt. Unless the DUP abstain on that (they could do), no chance of it passing. On second thoughts, the DUP would see it as a way for Corbyn to get into Downing St, so no chance.

2nd Ref could well be held up due to the reasons mentioned. Extension to Article 50 could happen mid-January though, to take the pressure off a 2nd vote timescale. Can't see any other outcome at the moment though...her deal-no chance, voted down mid Jan, no deal...no chance as no majority for it in the Commons, GE- no chance due to Tories not backing it, so....2nd Ref the only way out of the blockage. 

Normally I would agree but I see no road map to a 2nd referendum before a GE. Neither party wants to make a 2nd referendum call (Some Mps do) for fear of the punishment they could take at a GE as both committed to delivering Brexit last year. Constitutionally it makes more sense than a referendum and Labour's CU proposal perversely would suit the DUP as it would not require NI to have different requirements to the rest of the UK.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

6 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

A song for Theresa May

 

Best music ever linked on P&B. Ta for that.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

It's horribly, poetically beautiful to hear Tories bleating about labour turning this into a PP issue, or asking for cross-party co-operation to drag this shitpile of a deal over the line. May wanted this - she was offered much support from the initial A50 vote onwards to run this as a Parliamentary effort, but she decided to keep it in-house. Then she believed hercourtiers who in turn believed the shite in the media, and threw away a working majority of twelve in a vain attempt to gain a big enough majority to silence dissenters in her own party. Make no mistake, the 2017 GE was where she buried her career. The lying to HM, the bribing of the NI Bigots with OUR FúCKING MONEY, and all that has ensued - that will be her legacy. Oh, and the destruction of the Conservative Party - for which I'd give her a bit of credit if I believed she had the slightest idea what she was doing.

Labour have been consistent throughout, and credit to the entire Front Bench for remaining constant (with occasional slips of personal opinions) to the Party policy. Dimbleby tried again last night to suggest that McDonnell had said a second refrendum was inevitable, but the lovely Angela simply failed to riseto his goading, forcing him to reveal the full quote. "Inevitable if there isn't a GE"  isn't quite the same thing.

For all the critics of Corbyn on here - and in general - I have one question. What, exactly, can he do at the moment, other than provide his opponents in the House and the media with more opportunities to misquote and take out of context? The numbers aren't there for a VONC at the moment - those lovable dinosaurs from Ulster are the unknown variable.  After this deal has been rejected - which is as near a given as anything has been in this whole sorry affair - I reckon a VONC is much more likely to bring the Government down. Then we can campaign on Labour's manifesto, not a platform of "we're not the Tories" - although that would be enough to increase the vote share on its own. I am confident that will result in the downfall of the last Conservative government I will ever see. Those servile fools and their vile masters are dying out - just contrast the demographics in the House of Commons, never mind anywhere else. On one side of the house, a mix of parties, ages, genders, colours, beliefs and ethnicity. On the other, the only colour you see came out of a gin bottle, and the scattered female and BAME presence couldn't scream "token" any louder if they wore badges.

From Day One, this has been presented as a simple binary choice, whereas the real situation of forty-plus years of financial and political integration is far more complex. Corbyn's stance has never been straight remain or leave  - like me, he was of the opinion that the best option has always been "remain and reform" - never the easiest, quickest or shortest course, but certainly less harmful to the country than anything the Tories have come up with. One thing's for sure, and that is that KS, or whoever leads the labour team, will not be channeling Spitfires, Churchill and White Cliffs when negotiating.

[Pull My Strings]

8 hours ago, welshbairn said:

That assumes a willingness of Westminster to revoke A50 or ask for an extension. And ignores the problem of the Euro Parliament elections. There's no majority for anything at the moment and Nick Clegg made it really hard to force a General Election, which would be my favoured path to sanity.

It assumes a willingness to ask for an extension. What's the problem of the Euro Parliament elections? Unless you're suggesting that the EU wouldn't grant that extension, which seems rather far fetched.

[sureiknow]

11 hours ago, RadgerTheBadger said:

The Germans brought Europe to its knees once before, they are sure as f**k well on their way to doing it again 

The fourth Reich with it's European Army.

What could possibly go wrong!

When the EU and its army are going nose to nose with Russia you will all be glad we aren't part of it.

Your Children and Grandchildren will be safe.

[Granny Danger]

The EU have previously indicated that they would grant an extension in the event of a GE or a further referendum where Remain was an option.  If that took us past the elections to the EU Parliament and we eventually chose Remain (revoked Article 50) we would be a member of the EU but with no MEPs.  I don’t see that being a big deal as arrangements could be made for a later election for the U.K.

I think if we chose remain the other EU countries would go out of their way to be helpful.

[18May1991]

6 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

It's horribly, poetically beautiful to hear Tories bleating about labour turning this into a PP issue, or asking for cross-party co-operation to drag this shitpile of a deal over the line. May wanted this - she was offered much support from the initial A50 vote onwards to run this as a Parliamentary effort, but she decided to keep it in-house. Then she believed hercourtiers who in turn believed the shite in the media, and threw away a working majority of twelve in a vain attempt to gain a big enough majority to silence dissenters in her own party. Make no mistake, the 2017 GE was where she buried her career. The lying to HM, the bribing of the NI Bigots with OUR FúCKING MONEY, and all that has ensued - that will be her legacy. Oh, and the destruction of the Conservative Party - for which I'd give her a bit of credit if I believed she had the slightest idea what she was doing.

Labour have been consistent throughout, and credit to the entire Front Bench for remaining constant (with occasional slips of personal opinions) to the Party policy. Dimbleby tried again last night to suggest that McDonnell had said a second refrendum was inevitable, but the lovely Angela simply failed to riseto his goading, forcing him to reveal the full quote. "Inevitable if there isn't a GE"  isn't quite the same thing.

For all the critics of Corbyn on here - and in general - I have one question. What, exactly, can he do at the moment, other than provide his opponents in the House and the media with more opportunities to misquote and take out of context? The numbers aren't there for a VONC at the moment - those lovable dinosaurs from Ulster are the unknown variable.  After this deal has been rejected - which is as near a given as anything has been in this whole sorry affair - I reckon a VONC is much more likely to bring the Government down. Then we can campaign on Labour's manifesto, not a platform of "we're not the Tories" - although that would be enough to increase the vote share on its own. I am confident that will result in the downfall of the last Conservative government I will ever see. Those servile fools and their vile masters are dying out - just contrast the demographics in the House of Commons, never mind anywhere else. On one side of the house, a mix of parties, ages, genders, colours, beliefs and ethnicity. On the other, the only colour you see came out of a gin bottle, and the scattered female and BAME presence couldn't scream "token" any louder if they wore badges.

From Day One, this has been presented as a simple binary choice, whereas the real situation of forty-plus years of financial and political integration is far more complex. Corbyn's stance has never been straight remain or leave  - like me, he was of the opinion that the best option has always been "remain and reform" - never the easiest, quickest or shortest course, but certainly less harmful to the country than anything the Tories have come up with. One thing's for sure, and that is that KS, or whoever leads the labour team, will not be channeling Spitfires, Churchill and White Cliffs when negotiating.

So, in summary, Labour have no plan and no clue?

[Granny Danger]

So the face of the Tory ‘soft Brexiteers’ who now want to pull May out of the mess she has created by building a ‘cross party consensus’ is none other than Amber Rudd.  A thoroughly despicable woman, liar and xenophobe with not an ounce of compassion.  She should be told to f**k off in no uncertain terms.

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

5 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

It's horribly, poetically beautiful to hear Tories bleating about labour turning this into a PP issue, or asking for cross-party co-operation to drag this shitpile of a deal over the line. May wanted this - she was offered much support from the initial A50 vote onwards to run this as a Parliamentary effort, but she decided to keep it in-house. Then she believed hercourtiers who in turn believed the shite in the media, and threw away a working majority of twelve in a vain attempt to gain a big enough majority to silence dissenters in her own party. Make no mistake, the 2017 GE was where she buried her career. The lying to HM, the bribing of the NI Bigots with OUR FúCKING MONEY, and all that has ensued - that will be her legacy. Oh, and the destruction of the Conservative Party - for which I'd give her a bit of credit if I believed she had the slightest idea what she was doing.

Labour have been consistent throughout, and credit to the entire Front Bench for remaining constant (with occasional slips of personal opinions) to the Party policy. Dimbleby tried again last night to suggest that McDonnell had said a second refrendum was inevitable, but the lovely Angela simply failed to riseto his goading, forcing him to reveal the full quote. "Inevitable if there isn't a GE"  isn't quite the same thing.

For all the critics of Corbyn on here - and in general - I have one question. What, exactly, can he do at the moment, other than provide his opponents in the House and the media with more opportunities to misquote and take out of context? The numbers aren't there for a VONC at the moment - those lovable dinosaurs from Ulster are the unknown variable.  After this deal has been rejected - which is as near a given as anything has been in this whole sorry affair - I reckon a VONC is much more likely to bring the Government down. Then we can campaign on Labour's manifesto, not a platform of "we're not the Tories" - although that would be enough to increase the vote share on its own. I am confident that will result in the downfall of the last Conservative government I will ever see. Those servile fools and their vile masters are dying out - just contrast the demographics in the House of Commons, never mind anywhere else. On one side of the house, a mix of parties, ages, genders, colours, beliefs and ethnicity. On the other, the only colour you see came out of a gin bottle, and the scattered female and BAME presence couldn't scream "token" any louder if they wore badges.

From Day One, this has been presented as a simple binary choice, whereas the real situation of forty-plus years of financial and political integration is far more complex. Corbyn's stance has never been straight remain or leave  - like me, he was of the opinion that the best option has always been "remain and reform" - never the easiest, quickest or shortest course, but certainly less harmful to the country than anything the Tories have come up with. One thing's for sure, and that is that KS, or whoever leads the labour team, will not be channeling Spitfires, Churchill and White Cliffs when negotiating.

The Tory party will always be around. And never underestimate this Labour leadership to shoot themselves in the foot. The next GE , I believe , will be a minority Labour government at best.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

The EU have previously indicated that they would grant an extension in the event of a GE or a further referendum where Remain was an option.  If that took us past the elections to the EU Parliament and we eventually chose Remain (revoked Article 50) we would be a member of the EU but with no MEPs.  I don’t see that being a big deal as arrangements could be made for a later election for the U.K.
I think if we chose remain the other EU countries would go out of their way to be helpful.

Yep, the Bobby Ewing Solution, when the previous two years were revealed to be nothing but a horrible dream.

[git-intae-thum]

2 hours ago, sureiknow said:

The fourth Reich with it's European Army.

What could possibly go wrong!

When the EU and its army are going nose to nose with Russia you will all be glad we aren't part of it.

Your Children and Grandchildren will be safe.

^^

 Batshit crazy.

Atbf you do read similar in the comment sections in the English papers.

A lot of loons out their.

 

[cyderspaceman]

3 hours ago, sureiknow said:

The fourth Reich with it's European Army.

What could possibly go wrong!

When the EU and its army are going nose to nose with Russia you will all be glad we aren't part of it.

Your Children and Grandchildren will be safe.

Utter pish.

[NotThePars]

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-12-04/debates/C112155E-C163-4D6B-A4E2-F0F7DD0D7D14/EuropeanUnion(Withdrawal)Act
A wee present for you Johnboy.
Corbyn's section is worth reading for his heroic mugging off of Chris Leslie.

People say Corbyn has no political instincts like he didn’t bin Hilary Benn at like 3 in the morning while Diane Abbott delivered the coup de grace with the farewell quote “it’s very sad that Jeremy had to sack Hilary - we all know his father was a great man.”

If you start it by saying your red lines are Brexit means Brexit, no freedom of movement, no rule taking, no accepting ECJ judgements, frictionless Irish border and no different rules for Northern Ireland, then I am right. Corbyn's red lines are exactly the same, except for wanting more exceptions from Europe on state support for failing firms. 

Aren’t Corbyn’s red lines the six tests which are set up politically to make sure Labour rejects any deal the Tories bring back to parliament?

[Bully Wee Villa]

3 hours ago, sureiknow said:

The fourth Reich with it's European Army.

What could possibly go wrong!

When the EU and its army are going nose to nose with Russia you will all be glad we aren't part of it.

Your Children and Grandchildren will be safe.

You seem a bit thick, mate. 

[cyderspaceman]

Quote

The EU have previously indicated that they would grant an extension in the event of a GE or a further referendum where Remain was an option.  If that took us past the elections to the EU Parliament and we eventually chose Remain (revoked Article 50) we would be a member of the EU but with no MEPs.  I don’t see that being a big deal as arrangements could be made for a later election for the U.K.

I think if we chose remain the other EU countries would go out of their way to be helpful.

No big deal right enough.    Of the 73 we had, 24 were useless, do nothing (literally) UKIP twats.  Now down to 7, I see, due to multiple defections and ejections from UKIP although the others are still there under a different guise.

Since 24 of the remaining number are Tories, not having any might even be better. 

[cyderspaceman]

1 hour ago, Tynierose said:

He has a fantastically ironic username mind you.

He wants instant Sureik.....? 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I assumed that post from sureiknow was a pisstake. Puts my LEAVE MEANS LEAVE efforts to shame tbh

[DeeTillEhDeh]

 
They'll soon give a flying f**k about Scotland, when the SNP trigger Indy2 - which I can guarantee will happen in the event of the UK leaving the EU with No Deal.
Don't you remember what happened last time?
Even the Queen was getting worried - I just hope she lives long enough to see an independent Scotland.
 
 

IndyRef2 would happen with May's deal as well.