Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[WILLIEA]

Food industry saying that less choice and higher prices are inevitable following brexit.

Thank goodness we live in a country ( uk ) that has made such a wise decision!????

[jakedee]

For the independence referendum, the Scottish Government was advocating separation from the UK. In the EU referendum, the UK Government was advocated staying in the European Union, i.e. Remain, and produced documents to support its position. The SNP did not prepare for Brexit and this week's votes show that it will not even accept the result now. All the major parties, except UKIP, The Tories, Labour, thought that there was no chance of a Leave victory. That's why the preparations only began after Leave won - despite Remain being backed by the EUphile establishment (main parties, BBC, Guardian etc) and big business cronies like Goldman Sachs and Richard Branson.

Why would the SNP prepare for Brexit ? It was a UK vote after all.To say that the UK Government, because they did not expect it, therefor it is excusable not to prepare for that outcome is complete nonsense.Just because you campaign for one outcome does not excuse the complete lack of a plan if the opposite occurs.

[Baxter Parp]

59 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

Rajoy was talking about a region leaving a Member State and becoming an independent nation. Scotland is regarded as a region of the UK and EU, not a nation, by the EU's institutions.

Compliance with the acquis is a process that is undertaken chapter by chapter. The applicant has to demonstrate compliance with a chapter and, if satisfied, the EU then signs it off.

For a start, by having no central bank, an independent Scotland would not be compliant with chapter 17. "The acquis in the area of economic and monetary policy contains specific rules requiring the independence of central banks in Member States, prohibiting direct financing of the public sector by the central banks and prohibiting privileged access of the public sector to financial institutions. Member States are expected to co-ordinate their economic policies and are subject to the Stability and Growth Pact on fiscal surveillance. New Member States are also committed to complying with the criteria laid down in the Treaty in order to be able to adopt the euro in due course after accession. Until then, they will participate in the Economic and Monetary Union as a Member State with a derogation from the use of the euro and shall treat their exchange rates as a matter of common concern."

Chapter 33 would also be a challenge given Scotland's budget deficit.

"This chapter covers the rules concerning the financial resources necessary for the funding of the EU budget (‘own resources’). These resources are made up mainly from contributions from Member States based on traditional own resources from customs and agricultural duties and sugar levies; a resource based on value-added tax; and a resource based on the level of gross national income."

f**k sake.  How does Scotland not comply? Come on, stop cutting and pasting from websites and get to it.  In detail.

[Peppino Impastato]

Just block himhonestly the fforumIis much better when you don't have to read trolls.   I have 9 on block now and think that just about covers it.  He's so angry this one too. 

[Bishop Briggs]

15 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Which bit of that implies that Scotland couldn't join the EU? Or even might have a problem joining?  Or a timescale?

It says that Scotland couldn't remain in the EU on Independence Day as claimed in the White Paper. Under the Treaty of the EU, if part of a Member State secedes from that Member State, it leaves the EU too. Post-Brexit, an independent Scotland could apply to join the EU using the normal application process. That's always been the case. 

[Baxter Parp]

3 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

It says that Scotland couldn't remain in the EU on Independence Day as claimed in the White Paper. Under the Treaty of the EU, if part of a Member State secedes from that Member State, it leaves the EU too. Post-Brexit, an independent Scotland could apply to join the EU using the normal application process. That's always been the case. 

I know what it says, what I want to know is why it would be an insurmountable obstacle.

[Loondave1]

Just block himhonestly the fforumIis much better when you don't have to read trolls.   I have 9 on block now and think that just about covers it.  He's so angry this one too. 

Blockity block.

[strichener]

2 hours ago, williemillersmoustache said:

This will be why the only UK party leader that acted with any sort of decorum, responsibility or direction was Nicola Sturgeon following the vote.  Away with your pish, fools no-one.

I agree with you regarding her immediate response to the vote.  However acting with decorum does not mean that they were any more prepared than anyone else.  In fact it is the case that the SNP have subtly shifted position from

“From my point of view, from the Scottish perspective, remain means remain. As First Minister of Scotland, just as Theresa May has a mandate, I too have a mandate and that mandate is to respect the wishes of the people in Scotland and now to find a way to keep Scotland in the European Union. " July 2016

now it is

" "Theresa May needs to allow Scotland to preserve aspects of its relationship with the EU which would require new powers to be devolved to the Scottish parliament and that’s certainly something that needs to be on the table. "

[williemillersmoustache]

2 minutes ago, strichener said:

I agree with you regarding her immediate response to the vote.  However acting with decorum does not mean that they were any more prepared than anyone else.  In fact it is the case that the SNP have subtly shifted position from

“From my point of view, from the Scottish perspective, remain means remain. As First Minister of Scotland, just as Theresa May has a mandate, I too have a mandate and that mandate is to respect the wishes of the people in Scotland and now to find a way to keep Scotland in the European Union. " July 2016

now it is

" "Theresa May needs to allow Scotland to preserve aspects of its relationship with the EU which would require new powers to be devolved to the Scottish parliament and that’s certainly something that needs to be on the table. "

Yes, that doesn't mean she wasn't prepared, it means she has responded to the UK governments ever shifting position.

She has to give it a go, allow UKgov to come up with a deal that respects both the UK agenda and the assurances given during Indy and the conventions & statutes of the Scotland Act. I know this is impossible, so does she, so does Theresa May but it will be interesting to see:

a) how the supreme court rules on devolved matters

b) how much f**k all regard is payed to the people outside of the South-East of England or that work for Nissan

c) what the UK electorate as a whole do when Brexit continues down the road of abject disaster that it clearly is & clearly will be for everyone barring a few arms manufacturers and the furthest of far-right lunatics.

 

 

[strichener]

55 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

Yes, that doesn't mean she wasn't prepared, it means she has responded to the UK governments ever shifting position.

She has to give it a go, allow UKgov to come up with a deal that respects both the UK agenda and the assurances given during Indy and the conventions & statutes of the Scotland Act. I know this is impossible, so does she, so does Theresa May but it will be interesting to see:

a) how the supreme court rules on devolved matters

b) how much f**k all regard is payed to the people outside of the South-East of England or that work for Nissan

c) what the UK electorate as a whole do when Brexit continues down the road of abject disaster that it clearly is & clearly will be for everyone barring a few arms manufacturers and the furthest of far-right lunatics.

 

 

Sorry but it isn't in response to the UK Government, it is a result of her miscalculating what would happen to opinions on independence.  Immediately post-referendum she thought that the EU membership would help deliver another IndyRef.  The polls have not followed and so her demands have become softer and now we need to get entry to the single market to stop another referendum (as voiced by the deputy leader).  As someone that wants independence, it is abundantly clear to me that to hold a vote in the current environment will not return a favourable outcome.

[williemillersmoustache]

Sorry but it isn't in response to the UK Government, it is a result of her miscalculating what would happen to opinions on independence.  Immediately post-referendum she thought that the EU membership would help deliver another IndyRef.  The polls have not followed and so her demands have become softer and now we need to get entry to the single market to stop another referendum (as voiced by the deputy leader).  As someone that wants independence, it is abundantly clear to me that to hold a vote in the current environment will not return a favourable outcome.

Most folk didn't think we'd be waiting a year to trigger article 50, if at all

[topcat(The most tip top)]

More or less
On problems with short term economic forecast before Referendum

Short summary they expected an immediate belt tightening effect to follow a leave vote. It hasn't happened



More or Less: Behind the Stats, entitled How wrong were the Brexit forecasts?.

This message was sent from RSSRadio, available on the iTunes app store. http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/rssradio-mobile/id679025359

http://rssr.link/NJ1

[Baxter Parp]

On ‎09‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 13:47, Bishop Briggs said:

It says that Scotland couldn't remain in the EU on Independence Day as claimed in the White Paper. Under the Treaty of the EU, if part of a Member State secedes from that Member State, it leaves the EU too. Post-Brexit, an independent Scotland could apply to join the EU using the normal application process. That's always been the case. 

So we have a signing ceremony the same day.  No problem.

[Bishop Briggs]

2 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

So we have a signing ceremony the same day.  No problem.

Under the current timetable, Brexit should be achieved by March 2019. According to the EU treaties, only independent nations can apply to join the EU. Scotland would need to

a) hold a referendum (backed by Westminster legislation to make it binding on the UK)

b) complete independence negation with rUK

c) apply for EU membership

d) complete EU accession negotiations

by March 2019.

No chance!

[Baxter Parp]

Just now, Bishop Briggs said:

Under the current timetable, Brexit should be achieved by March 2019. According to the EU treaties, only independent nations can apply to join the EU. Scotland would need to

a) hold a referendum (backed by Westminster legislation to make it binding on the UK)

b) complete independence negation with rUK

c) apply for EU membership

d) complete EU accession negotiations

by March 2019.

No chance!

Nah, easy peasy.

Complete independence negotiation with UK at 9:00am

Declare independence at 9:30

Break for drinkies

Apply for EU membership at 11:00am

EU commissioners tick boxes

Done by 11:15

Piss up begins

[Bishop Briggs]

3 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Nah, easy peasy.

Complete independence negotiation with UK at 9:00am

Declare independence at 9:30

Break for drinkies

Apply for EU membership at 11:00am

EU commissioners tick boxes

Done by 11:15

Piss up begins

Do you think Juncker would be sober at 11am? Media reports say that he starts with cognac at breakfast! 

[Baxter Parp]

Just now, Bishop Briggs said:

Do you think Juncker would be sober at 11am? Media reports say that he starts with cognac at breakfast! 

We'd get his secretary to put a pen in his hand and move it about.

[Jacksgranda]

21 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

Do you think Juncker would be sober at 11am? Media reports say that he starts with cognac at breakfast! 

Probably needs one if he's dealing with the likes of Boris...

[Colkitto]

On the day we find out Junker to control EU negotiations, he's privately meeting Alex Salmond. 

[Peppino Impastato]

The UK and USA have been conducting espionage against Russia with every capability they have every day for 70 years.   The rhetoric coming out of London and Washington right now is so disingenuous and hypocritical in the extreme.   We are trying to manufacture war with Russia,  this is all to prepare the public mind for the coming war with Russia they have planned. 

 

Russia poses precisely zero threat at all to the national security of the USA or UK,  none whatsoever.   So why do our governments want war with Then?   Why are they trying desperately to engineer a conflict with Russia that if it happens will inevitably cost millions of lives and decimate the global economy?