Granny Danger Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 38 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: Former chief of intelligence, Sir Richard Dearlove, urging tories to vote against May's deal claiming that it would have serious implications for the country's security. Bizarrely though, he reckons that crashing out without a deal, would be a more sensible and a better option regarding security concerns. Sounds like a Bond villain; should be ignored. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 The Brexit debate is becoming really tedious now, as I think everyone knows the 3 camps and their beliefs which are completely entrenched. Camp 1 Easy life group "the people have spoken", -- Go with Auntie Theresa and just accept we'll be slightly worse off than we are just now and also accept that we're still going to be pretty much tied to the EU but with no voice and no power, however, the "result" would be honoured. Camp 2 Cut off nose to spite face group "the people have spoken, leave means leave" -- EU are evil and even if it means we're all going to be poor as church mice, well so be it, as it will also screw Europe. Out and that's it, no negotiation, no surrender !! (these are the same types that would love a nuclear war). Camp 3 Deny the result group -- "the people didn't vote for this" -- Have another referendum and hope that we vote to stay in this time. Leaving the EU is undoubtedly foolhardy given that every piece of data points to us being worse off from an Economic perspective and further challenges will need to be overcome from a security and trade perspective, however, it does go against the initial result and any public order repercussions would need to be factored in. As we can see, there's no easy option, however it's surely up to every politician to do what they feel is right for the country. People are going to be pissed off whatever happens but as the electorate and as citizens we can only now rely on the intellect and conscience of our elected representatives. Be afraid, be very afraid................... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz^ Randy Giles found 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, WATTOO said: The Brexit debate is becoming really tedious now, as I think everyone knows the 3 camps and their beliefs which are completely entrenched. Camp 1 Easy life group "the people have spoken", -- Go with Auntie Theresa and just accept we'll be slightly worse off than we are just now and also accept that we're still going to be pretty much tied to the EU but with no voice and no power, however, the "result" would be honoured. Camp 2 Cut off nose to spite face group "the people have spoken, leave means leave" -- EU are evil and even if it means we're all going to be poor as church mice, well so be it, as it will also screw Europe. Out and that's it, no negotiation, no surrender !! (these are the same types that would love a nuclear war). Camp 3 Deny the result group -- "the people didn't vote for this" -- Have another referendum and hope that we vote to stay in this time. Leaving the EU is undoubtedly foolhardy given that every piece of data points to us being worse off from an Economic perspective and further challenges will need to be overcome from a security and trade perspective, however, it does go against the initial result and any public order repercussions would need to be factored in. As we can see, there's no easy option, however it's surely up to every politician to do what they feel is right for the country. People are going to be pissed off whatever happens but as the electorate and as citizens we can only now rely on the intellect and conscience of our elected representatives. Be afraid, be very afraid................... Note also that Camp 2 houses a swathe of The Rangers Rule Britannia Vanguard Bears arseholes who love independence to a certain level butno further. Fuckin frothers. Edited January 10, 2019 by HTG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Mostly agree with David Lammy in Parliament today. Quote Brexit is a con, a trick, a swindle, a fraud, a deception that will hurt most of those people it promised to help, a dangerous fantasy which will make every problem it claims to solve worse ... Friends on this side of the House tell me to appease Labour voters in industrial towns - the former miners, the factory workers, those who feel they’ve been left behind. I say we must not patronise them with cowardice, let’s tell them the truth - you were old a lie. Immigrants have not taken your jobs, our schools and colleges failed to give you the skills, hospitals are not crumbling because of health tourists but decades of austerity that ground them down to the bone, you cannot afford a house because both parties failed to build, not because of Mohammed down the road who moved in, and wealth was hoarded in London when it should have been shared across the country. Blame us, blame Westminster, do not blame Brussels for our own country’s mistakes and do not be angry at us for telling you the truth, be angry at the chancers who sold you a lie ... Just as I speak plainly to the government this time around, let me also speak to the pposition about some home truths. There is no leftwing justification for Brexit. Ditching workers’ rights, social protections and ending environmental cooperation is not progressive. This is a project about neo-liberal deregulation, it’s Thatcherism on steroids pushed by her modern-day disciples. Leaving the EU will not free us from the injustices of global capitalism, it will make us subordinate to Trump’s US. Socialism confined to one country will not work, whether you like it or not, the world we live in is global, we can only fix the rigged system if we cooperate across border lines. The party of Keir Hardie has always been international. We must not let down our young supporters by failing to stand with them at the biggest issue of our lives. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Warmonger Lammy citing Keir Hardie -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 The People’s Vote lot want to rehabilitate and position many of the politicians responsible for that austerity and decimation of communities across the land. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: Brexit is a con, a trick, a swindle, a fraud, a deception that will hurt most of those people it promised to help, a dangerous fantasy which will make every problem it claims to solve worse ... Friends on this side of the House tell me to appease Labour voters in industrial towns - the former miners, the factory workers, those who feel they’ve been left behind. I say we must not patronise them with cowardice, let’s tell them the truth - you were old a lie. Immigrants have not taken your jobs, our schools and colleges failed to give you the skills, hospitals are not crumbling because of health tourists but decades of austerity that ground them down to the bone, you cannot afford a house because both parties failed to build, not because of Mohammed down the road who moved in, and wealth was hoarded in London when it should have been shared across the country. Blame us, blame Westminster, do not blame Brussels for our own country’s mistakes and do not be angry at us for telling you the truth, be angry at the chancers who sold you a lie ... Just as I speak plainly to the government this time around, let me also speak to the pposition about some home truths. There is no leftwing justification for Brexit. Ditching workers’ rights, social protections and ending environmental cooperation is not progressive. This is a project about neo-liberal deregulation, it’s Thatcherism on steroids pushed by her modern-day disciples. Leaving the EU will not free us from the injustices of global capitalism, it will make us subordinate to Trump’s US. Socialism confined to one country will not work, whether you like it or not, the world we live in is global, we can only fix the rigged system if we cooperate across border lines. The party of Keir Hardie has always been international. We must not let down our young supporters by failing to stand with them at the biggest issue of our lives. That's fucking brilliant. I'm going to print that out and send a copy to every pub landlord in the Burnley area and urge them to display prominently on their premises. This part here, I especially love : Immigrants have not taken your jobs, our schools and colleges failed to give you the skills, hospitals are not crumbling because of health tourists but decades of austerity that ground them down to the bone, you cannot afford a house because both parties failed to build, not because of Mohammed down the road who moved in, and wealth was hoarded in London when it should have been shared across the country. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Brexit is looking more and more like a play about a right wing coup. Quote 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 8 hours ago, moniton said: I have a close family member who works there. They had a weeks shutdown in October and his workmates were delighted to get an extra weeks holiday with their children. When he pointed out that shutdowns in manufacturing tend to be a precursor to something worse he was shouted down, he then mentioned brexit and was genuinely asked what getting Eastern Europeans sent back home has to do with the car industry- truly mental. Well they're now getting sent back to Nitra, Slovakia to do the skilled jobs that the British public have just sent down the swanny. Unemployment in western Slovakia is about 1% right now as companies literally can't get enough workers to run the largest per capita car manufacturing sector in the world. Perhaps 200,000 gammons from Grimsby, Sunderland etc. should leave their pointless shitholes and do the cleaning work that the eastern Europeans won't bother doing any more. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 The average full time wage in Slovakia is £760 a month. If they are short of workers i'm sure they'll get more from Bulgaria and Romania. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Detournement said: The average full time wage in Slovakia is £760 a month. If they are short of workers i'm sure they'll get more from Bulgaria and Romania. If you're working in a supermarket, it is. The average wage for skilled worker is of course much higher, tied with a cost of living that is roughly half that of the UK for its natives. In a comparison between Boston, England and Nitra there's only one winner and it certainly isn't Gammon Central. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, virginton said: If you're working in a supermarket, it is. The average wage for skilled worker is of course much higher, tied with a cost of living that is roughly half that of the UK for its natives. In a comparison between Boston, England and Nitra there's only one winner and it certainly isn't Gammon Central. That's the mean average wage. 58% earn less than that. Supermarket jobs must be like gold dust if they put you in the top 42% of earners. A quick Google reveals workers at the Volkswagen plant in Slovakia get £20,000 a year. There are obviously big savings to be made for the corporations that are moving jobs from the UK and Germany to Slovakia. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 The right wing rags are absolutely furious at Bercow. [emoji38] May is trying to pressurise Parliament by running the clock down but they are attacking him because by accepting the Grieve amendment (which he is entitled to do) it limits her from doing so. We all know she has no Plan B but that’s no one’s fault but her own. Interesting that he was defended by JRM of all people - clearly setting himself up against Leadsom. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Was it as credible 'a quick Google' as the one that led to you unearth Anthony C. Pick as the voice of authority on how nationalism works? £20k a year is a very well paid job indeed in a country where land and property values are low and other expenses are far lower as well. I'm sure that the workers would be devastated to learn that they could earn a higher salary in a shithole like Solihull but pay twice as much for most living expenses, four times as much for a bevvy and... have to live in Solihull. The only losers from this straightforward economic exchange are the Brexit-voting gammon population of England. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 The Jaguar factory was planned well before Brexit. It's funny that someone who is perma raging has such a problem with Gammons. I'm sure there won't be any attempt to drive down labour costs in Slovakia in the future and the workers of Nitra will live happily ever after. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 You didn't answer the question champ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 The Brexit debate is becoming really tedious now, as I think everyone knows the 3 camps and their beliefs which are completely entrenched.Camp 1 Easy life group "the people have spoken", -- Go with Auntie Theresa and just accept we'll be slightly worse off than we are just now and also accept that we're still going to be pretty much tied to the EU but with no voice and no power, however, the "result" would be honoured.Camp 2 Cut off nose to spite face group "the people have spoken, leave means leave" -- EU are evil and even if it means we're all going to be poor as church mice, well so be it, as it will also screw Europe. Out and that's it, no negotiation, no surrender !! (these are the same types that would love a nuclear war).Camp 3 Deny the result group -- "the people didn't vote for this" -- Have another referendum and hope that we vote to stay in this time. Leaving the EU is undoubtedly foolhardy given that every piece of data points to us being worse off from an Economic perspective and further challenges will need to be overcome from a security and trade perspective, however, it does go against the initial result and any public order repercussions would need to be factored in. As we can see, there's no easy option, however it's surely up to every politician to do what they feel is right for the country. People are going to be pissed off whatever happens but as the electorate and as citizens we can only now rely on the intellect and conscience of our elected representatives. Be afraid, be very afraid...................There is a fourth group - soft leavers/remainers who would have been happy with a sift Brexit Norway/Switzerland type deal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Warmonger Lammy citing Keir Hardie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) Ah VT schooling H_B just like old times. Reunions always bring a tear to my eye. Happy New Year guys. Edited January 10, 2019 by Londonwell 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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