The Official Former President Trump thread

[NotThePars]

Liberal conspiracies are more mental than the far right. I'd sooner believe Clinton was a demon than Trump was a deep state Russian agent.

[welshbairn]

16 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Liberal conspiracies are more mental than the far right. I'd sooner believe Clinton was a demon than Trump was a deep state Russian agent.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he was bailed out by Russian oligarchs in exchange for a bit of money laundering, giving the Kremlin a bit of leverage. His son was quite open about how much money they had coming in from Russian investors. I'm sure he's not considered as an actual agent though, just a useful person of influence. It does seem strange that Russia is about the only major country that he hasn't attacked in a tweet or a speech.

[NotThePars]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he was bailed out by Russian oligarchs in exchange for a bit of money laundering, giving the Kremlin a bit of leverage. His son was quite open about how much money they had coming in from Russian investors. I'm sure he's not considered as an actual agent though, just a useful person of influence. It does seem strange that Russia is about the only major country that he hasn't attacked in a tweet or a speech.

I've heard Hillary stinks though. Like an ungodly, otherworldly smell. And they're putting fluoride in the water that turns the frogs gay.

[harry94]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he was bailed out by Russian oligarchs in exchange for a bit of money laundering, giving the Kremlin a bit of leverage. His son was quite open about how much money they had coming in from Russian investors. I'm sure he's not considered as an actual agent though, just a useful person of influence. It does seem strange that Russia is about the only major country that he hasn't attacked in a tweet or a speech.

Yeah, I don't think he's an actual agent but when he's openly touting Putin for years (who is known to support campaigns in other countries) and then has key figures very close to him who have Kremlin relations and has one of them break the law to appease Russia before the inauguration; the chances are pretty high that there is something not quite right there.

If he was linked to Rosneft, as alleged in the Steele dossier, and personally took the 19%; that goes a bit beyond the influence and would actually define him as a traitor and be a far more serious crime than Nixon did. The timing being so close to that information being made public though makes me a bit skeptical though as it would be very ballsy to go through with that.

Any evidence of money changing hands between the campaign and the Russian's should be the end of them though.

[Deplorable]

I honestly don't see the problem with any Trump ties to Russia. It's not like he hid his position during the campaign. He ran on reorienting American foreign policy towards Russia. And I don't think that's an odd position for him to take. The nationalist right, from Pat Buchanan to Ron Paul, has been anti-anti Russia since the end of the Cold War.

2 hours ago, harry94 said:

and then has key figures very close to him who have Kremlin relations and has one of them break the law to appease Russia before the inauguration;

If you're referring to Flynn, the law he allegedly broke is from the 1700s and has never been used to convict anyone. Legal experts seem to agree that it would most likely be ruled unconstitutional by the courts, but since no one has been convicted there's nobody with standing to challenge the law in the courts.

Also, the transcripts were never released of what he said. Sources have said he only mentioned sanctions in passing and there were no in depth discussions.

Flynn may have been a sketchy character, but the only crimes we know about regarding his contact with Russia are that an American citizen was illegally spied on and the results of that spying were leaked to the press.

[Zetterlund]

If Trump is a Russian agent then his Kremlin overlords had better tell him he's doing it wrong regarding Crimea for one thing, since his UN appointee has made it quite clear they're sticking to Obama's script on that issue, along with the associated sanctions. He's also been sending more troops into Syria illegally without coordinating with the local government, which would also displease Putin and the other actors on the ground trying to bring that mess to an end.

[welshbairn]

Flynn was acting as an undeclared foreign agent for the Turkish Government while he was attending top secret intelligence briefings, and helping formulate Trump's policy towards Turkey, for which he was paid $500,000 dollars.

[harry94]

1 hour ago, Deplorable said:

I honestly don't see the problem with any Trump ties to Russia. It's not like he hid his position during the campaign. He ran on reorienting American foreign policy towards Russia. And I don't think that's an odd position for him to take. The nationalist right, from Pat Buchanan to Ron Paul, has been anti-anti Russia since the end of the Cold War.

If you're referring to Flynn, the law he allegedly broke is from the 1700s and has never been used to convict anyone. Legal experts seem to agree that it would most likely be ruled unconstitutional by the courts, but since no one has been convicted there's nobody with standing to challenge the law in the courts.

Also, the transcripts were never released of what he said. Sources have said he only mentioned sanctions in passing and there were no in depth discussions.

Flynn may have been a sketchy character, but the only crimes we know about regarding his contact with Russia are that an American citizen was illegally spied on and the results of that spying were leaked to the press.

Even if I concede that Flynn maybe didn't technically break the law (depending on how it's interpreted), he lied about it several times and had already been sacked by a previous administration for lying. In addition to this, he'd been paid sums of money by Kaspersky who are deeply integrated with the Kremlin.

I'm not actually saying anyone has done anything wrong but between Flynn and Manafort (who I'd say is probably stinks more than Flynn), there is an adequate amount of odd links that should raise suspicions and does make further inquiry justified IMO.

We simply don't know if Flynn being spied on was a crime because we don't know what knowledge the FBI were possibly given since it's an ongoing investigation. With his background and publicised activity, it's not really surprising that he could have done something that would have presented the intelligence agencies with no choice but to take those measures. Although there's always the possibility with almost any sort of covert action being an overreach, there right now doesn't really seem to be anything cohesive that makes that more likely.

[welshbairn]

40 minutes ago, harry94 said:

Even if I concede that Flynn maybe didn't technically break the law (depending on how it's interpreted), he lied about it several times and had already been sacked by a previous administration for lying. In addition to this, he'd been paid sums of money by Kaspersky who are deeply integrated with the Kremlin.

I'm not actually saying anyone has done anything wrong but between Flynn and Manafort (who I'd say is probably stinks more than Flynn), there is an adequate amount of odd links that should raise suspicions and does make further inquiry justified IMO.

We simply don't know if Flynn being spied on was a crime because we don't know what knowledge the FBI were possibly given since it's an ongoing investigation. With his background and publicised activity, it's not really surprising that he could have done something that would have presented the intelligence agencies with no choice but to take those measures. Although there's always the possibility with almost any sort of covert action being an overreach, there right now doesn't really seem to be anything cohesive that makes that more likely.

The FBI routinely bug foreign diplomats, especially Russians, so they wouldn't have had to bug Trump Tower to listen in. If he was actively trying to undermine the sanctions made by a serving President on a foreign adversity without declaring it, that's not only illegal but incredibly stupid if he thought he wouldn't get found out. Which leads me to believe the rumours that he lost his marbles when he returned from Afghanistan are true.

[Deplorable]

16 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The FBI routinely bug foreign diplomats, especially Russians, so they wouldn't have had to bug Trump Tower to listen in.

Just so we are clear, if Flynn's comments were heard based on surveillance of Russian diplomats rather than on surveillance of Trump or Flynn personally, then the law says any record of what an American citizen says must be immediately destroyed and the person listening in is barred from discussing the contents. Somehow what Flynn said was leaked.

[welshbairn]

Nonsense. The FBI isn't allowed to take note of an American citizen giving unauthorised and privileged information to a foreign power? Not much point in having a counter intelligence branch then if they're only allowed to record one side of the conversation.

Edited March 21, 2017 by welshbairn

[Deplorable]

I went an looked up the Flynn Turkey stuff. His consulting firm had a contract with a Dutch company that has ties to Erdogan through it's Turkish founders. The work had been previously disclosed to Congress and was discussed with the Trump transition team, but the specifics didn't make it all the way up to Trump and Pence. A lawyer working for the Trump transition told Flynn that whether to officially register as an agent of a foreign government because of his firm's contract was a personal decision and not a matter for the transition.

Of course all this shit is part of the problem, but it's hard to condemn people for turning down easy lobbying money when they are out of government. That's why it's important to put more restrictions on what types of lobbying ex-government officials can do.

[Deplorable]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Nonsense. The FBI isn't allowed to take note of an American citizen giving unauthorised and privileged information to a foreign power? Not much point in having a counter intelligence branch then if they're only allowed to record one side of the conversation.

You have to have a warrant to listen in on an American citizen. The intelligence agencies can listen in on foreigners, but according to what I've read they are supposed to immediately delete anything said by American citizens not under a court order for surveillance.

[Granny Danger]

Trump being praised in some quarters for not responding to FBI comments during a speech in Kentucky yesterday.

That's the level that the bar has been set at folks, the President of the United States manages to go for one day without making a c**t of himself and people think it's a great thing.

 

[mjw]

Trump being praised in some quarters for not responding to FBI comments during a speech in Kentucky yesterday.
That's the level that the bar has been set at folks, the President of the United States manages to go for one day without making a c**t of himself and people think it's a great thing.
 

You sure?
He was tweeting his version of Comeys evidence while he was still giving it.
He used the official POTUS twitter to throw people of the scent though.

[tongue_tied_danny]

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

Trump being praised in some quarters for not responding to FBI comments during a speech in Kentucky yesterday.

That's the level that the bar has been set at folks, the President of the United States manages to go for one day without making a c**t of himself and people think it's a great thing.

 

 

1 hour ago, mjw said:

You sure?
He was tweeting his version of Comeys evidence while he was still giving it.
He used the official POTUS twitter to throw people of the scent though.

 

Edited March 21, 2017 by welshbairn

[Granny Danger]

I clearly said he was praised for not responding during a speech.  Never said anything about his twitter.  Simply reinforces my point about how low the bar is being set.

[Shades75]

Is he doing anything else apart from tweeting, playing golf, going on holiday, watching Fox News, and generally putting out fires?

I mean, I thought this was going to be about getting shit done?

Seems like he's doing f**k all to me.

When's this wall getting built?

[Granny Danger]

Just now, Shades75 said:

Is he doing anything else apart from tweeting, playing golf, going on holiday, watching Fox News, and generally putting out fires?

I mean, I thought this was going to be about getting shit done?

Seems like he's doing f**k all to me.

When's this wall getting built?

As soon as the Mexicans cough up the dosh.