TheProgressiveLiberal Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 16 minutes ago, Savage Henry said: There's a growing school of thought that he's not a well man. Medical folks are professionally forbidden from even speculating, sadly. Because they falsely labeled Barry Goldwater as being mentally ill. There's a history in this country of health care professionals lying about the mental condition of right wing leaders. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: Because they falsely labeled Barry Goldwater as being mentally ill. There's a history in this country of health care professionals lying about the mental condition of right wing leaders. Why do you feel the need to turn everything into left versus right? Eagleton. It's not a political issue. It's an ethicall one. Edited August 23, 2017 by Savage Henry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 1 hour ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: You might have a point if this guy was voting between the German system and Obamacare. What he was voting for in the last election was Obamacare vs. Trump's mysterious plan that would cover everyone and be affordable. What this guy knows is that before Obamacare, he and his wife had insurance for a reasonable price. Democrats managed to get 60 seats in the Senate and control of the House for the only time since 1992, along with a President who made healthcare his signature priority. So basically the best possible position they could ever achieve. The bill they came up with wasn't the German system. It was Obamacare, and now his costs have gone through the roof. And Hillary Clinton was running on a platform that said Obamacare was great. Why would he possibly vote for that? What you don't understand is that lots of Republicans would favor a more socialized medical system, but that isn't anything close to what the Democrats are ever going to offer because too many Democrats don't want any change which will affect their personal health care coverage, which they like. When they offer Obamacare, many people who might be for more socialized medicine might just decide that what the Republicans are selling is better. At least Obama came up with a healthcare plan to sell to Congress, who then emasculated it to make unworkable in the long term. Trump has come up with nothing. No healthcare plan, no tax reform plan, no infrastructure plan, no wall. If he had come in and said to Congress, especially to the Democrats, "Look, healthcare and the infrastructure are broken, lets fix them. This isn't a partisan issue. Lets get to work.", and got the Whitehouse working on bills to send to Congress, something might have happened. He has done nothing in office apart from give the EU fantastic trade deals with Japan and other Far Eastern countries as a consequence of him pulling out of TPP. European food exporters now have a 15% tariff advantage over US farmers. He said last night he'd probably pull out of NAFTA too, his rural base will be delighted, screwing up their 2 biggest export markets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Because they falsely labeled Barry Goldwater as being mentally ill. There's a history in this country of health care professionals lying about the mental condition of right wing leaders. You mean "unprofessionally" as opposed to "falsely" and "speculating" as opposed to lying.Unless you're asserting as fact that Goldwater was perfectly sane.It's a reasonable enough rule nonetheless Although were a President to genuinely succumb to Madness then the rule would make the situation harder to resolve.A nation that was born through throwing out a genuinely mad head of state should have better constitutional contingency plans 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Madison Square Gardens, New York, February 1939. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 9 hours ago, Savage Henry said: Why do you feel the need to turn everything into left versus right? Eagleton. It's not a political issue. It's an ethicall one. You're right it's an ethical issue. This exact situation came up before in the US. You don't think some psychologists would be willing to lie about Trump and chalk it up to the greater good. You don't think large parts of the media would be more than happy to run with their claims. The American Psychiatric Association's ethical rule that their members can't offer a diagnosis of public figures is called the Goldwater Rule. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldwater_rule The Goldwater rule is the informal name given to Section 7 in the American Psychiatric Association's (APA) Principles of Medical Ethics,[1] which states it is unethical for psychiatrists to give a professional opinion about public figures they have not examined in person, and from whom they have not obtained consent to discuss their mental health in public statements.[2] It is named after presidential candidate Barry Goldwater.[3][4] The issue arose in 1964 when Fact published the article "The Unconscious of a Conservative: A Special Issue on the Mind of Barry Goldwater".[3][5] The magazine polled psychiatrists about American Senator Barry Goldwater and whether he was fit to be president.[6][7] The editor, Ralph Ginzburg, was sued for libel in Goldwater v. Ginzburg where Goldwater won $75,000 (approximately $579,000 today) in damages.[3] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, welshbairn said: At least Obama came up with a healthcare plan to sell to Congress, who then emasculated it to make unworkable in the long term. Trump has come up with nothing. No healthcare plan, no tax reform plan, no infrastructure plan, no wall. If he had come in and said to Congress, especially to the Democrats, "Look, healthcare and the infrastructure are broken, lets fix them. This isn't a partisan issue. Lets get to work.", and got the Whitehouse working on bills to send to Congress, something might have happened. He has done nothing in office apart from give the EU fantastic trade deals with Japan and other Far Eastern countries as a consequence of him pulling out of TPP. European food exporters now have a 15% tariff advantage over US farmers. He said last night he'd probably pull out of NAFTA too, his rural base will be delighted, screwing up their 2 biggest export markets. It's a fair enough criticism of Trump that he didn't have a plan ready that could pass. According to what I read they had to use a complicated parliamentary process called reconciliation to avoid a filibuster. I'm not 100% sure what all this entailed, but supposedly the end goal was to fix the insurance market based on executive orders from the Dept of Health and Human Services. They couldn't get any real changes through the Senate because that would have required 7 Democrat votes even if every Republican agreed. I guess we were supposed to ignore what was actually in the Congressional bill and just wait for Trump to fix it through executive action once passed. That was the best pro-Trump argument I heard and I didn't present it in the fullest way, but it sounded really sketchy to me. I will admit that I was wrong about Trump being able to negotiate with Democrats on areas of common interests in a way that Obama wasn't able to deal with the Republicans. Perhaps I was naïve. My own belief is that Trump's immigration stance is so odious to 95% of the elected Democrats and their big donors that they'd rather let things fail and hope that leads to his defeat, rather than deal with him on areas of common interest like infrastructure or a moderate / centrists health care proposal to replace Obamacare. I come to this conclusion partially based on personal experience because Obama's immigration policy made me think this way, but in reverse. Just a small note, the White House can't send bills to Congress. All bills have to officially originate in Congress. If the swamp creature Republican leadership doesn't want to work with someone like Steve Bannon, they can basically drag their feet on any proposals they want. Interestingly, they are not allowing Trump to make recess appointments to positions that are not filled. This is fairly standard when a different party controls Congress. They send one Senator down to gavel the chamber into session for a minute so they aren't technically ever in recess. It prevents the President from appointing someone who couldn't otherwise pass a Senate vote who can then serve with full power until they get around to actually voting. For the Republican Party leadership to do this to their own President shows how much they are unwilling to work his way. Edited August 24, 2017 by TheProgressiveLiberal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Trump's back on twitter, slagging off the Republican leadership and the media as usual, and retweeting this: https://twitter.com/JerryTravone/status/900694348257517568 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 23 hours ago, Suspect Device said: Would they actually say that in the advert? Seems a bit suspicious. Not saying it didn't happen but you'd have to be thick as f**k to actually have it in print. If they were going to do it, they would not say it until the interview stage surely? Maybe I'm being thick treating this seriously. Nah you were right, turns out it's a hoax. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 2 hours ago, welshbairn said: Trump's back on twitter, slagging off the Republican leadership and the media as usual, and retweeting this: https://twitter.com/JerryTravone/status/900694348257517568 Looks like a loony in front of a shining star. That's what a lunar eclipse is - isn't it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 The Democrats are officially rejecting overtures from the Trump administration that would give the Dreamers permanent legal status in exchange for future crackdowns on immigration. Guess that shows their real feelings 100%. It's not about helping people who are in a tough spot because they were brought here as illegals by their parents. What's really important is making sure future 3rd world people have easy access to our country. The key to understanding the modern Democratic Party leadership and activist base is that on any given issue you can predict how they will side based on which group is farthest away from being the hated average American. In this case people who currently live in the 3rd world and don't speak English need to be sided with over people who mostly grew up in the US and mostly speak English. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: The Democrats are officially rejecting overtures from the Trump administration that would give the Dreamers permanent legal status in exchange for future crackdowns on immigration. If it's official you should be able to provide a link. Meanwhile, it seems Trump is right about one thing, the Washington Post has become the official mouthpiece for Amazon, and channel to the elite. Quote Amazon’s $13.7 billion purchase of Whole Foods Market will be finalized Monday, and shoppers will see an immediate markdown in prices on a number of items, including salmon, avocados, baby kale and almond butter, as the tech giant looks to shake up the grocery business. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/08/24/amazons-takeover-of-whole-foods-begins-monday-and-youll-see-changes-right-away/?utm_term=.d475c02e9b6a Edited August 24, 2017 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/08/24/amazons-takeover-of-whole-foods-begins-monday-and-youll-see-changes-right-away/?utm_term=.d475c02e9b6a Great news. I like those foods. I'm the big winner in all of this, it turns out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 8 hours ago, welshbairn said: If it's official you should be able to provide a link. Meanwhile, it seems Trump is right about one thing, the Washington Post has become the official mouthpiece for Amazon, and channel to the elite. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/08/24/amazons-takeover-of-whole-foods-begins-monday-and-youll-see-changes-right-away/?utm_term=.d475c02e9b6a http://www.salon.com/2017/08/22/donald-trump-is-using-dreamers-as-a-bargaining-chip-for-funding-a-border-wall/ Salan had this article. Chuck Schumer tweeted a link and said, "Dreamers are not a bargaining chip for the border wall and inhumane deportation force." Nancy Pelosi: "It is reprehensible to treat children as bargaining chips. America's Dreamers are not negotiable." Well, I guess since the current law says they have to get deported, and the President is constitutionally charged with faithfully enforcing all laws that means many of them will be deported. It's probably good long term for Democrats. They get nice photo ops of people raised in the US since they were 3 getting sent away, which they hope will help defeat Trump and then they will get even more 3rd worlders in the end. If we got an actual deal where the people in a tough spot got to stay and future immigration is restricted to highly skilled workers then Trump would look good and we get less 3rd worlders in the end. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 On 8/23/2017 at 20:30, welshbairn said: Madison Square Gardens, New York, February 1939. A. This is what happens when you let immigrants in. This gathering was almost exclusively immigrants. B. So we had a massive peaceful rally at the height of fascism where a bunch of Nazi Party members gave speeches, and we didn't fall to the Nazis? I wonder how that's possible since nobody showed up to beat them up in the streets? I thought masked thugs were the only things standing between our country and fascism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: A. This is what happens when you let immigrants in. Said Native Americans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: A. This is what happens when you let immigrants in. This gathering was almost exclusively immigrants. B. So we had a massive peaceful rally at the height of fascism where a bunch of Nazi Party members gave speeches, and we didn't fall to the Nazis? I wonder how that's possible since nobody showed up to beat them up in the streets? I thought masked thugs were the only things standing between our country and fascism. They didn't bring Facism to America but they did at least help keep America Neutral for the first few years of World War II until Germany declared war on them. You are of course entitled to your opinion on whether there were "some very fine people on both sides" in that conflict But I suspect we may have to agree to disagree on that Edited August 25, 2017 by topcat(The most tip top) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 http://www.clickhole.com/article/next-level-gaming-new-call-duty-will-penalize-play-6513 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 (edited) http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320?amp=1 BERNIE SANDERS VOTERS HELPED TRUMP WIN AND HERE'S PROOF Fucking idiots. Edited August 25, 2017 by Baxter Parp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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