Kuro Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 minute ago, The OP said: Do you accept that a plane flew into both of those buildings? Of some description yes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Just now, Kuro said: Of some description yes. Well, that’s a start. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 36 minutes ago, Kuro said: Drivers are.not qualified professionals. Pilots are. Do a little research then we can discuss this, right now you're just a fathead ignoramus with nothing to offer. Quote Flight 77 impacted the Pentagon near 488 knots. Based on FDR, the terrorist pilot was in a PIO, going from near weigh-less to twice your weight in the last few seconds. I would not call a crash into the Pentagon a plane in control at 500 mph; he crashed. I think it is ironic the dolt thinks you have to control a plane to crash it. Crashing is the opposite of control. There is no way for the terrorists to fail on crashing. The easiest thing to do in flying is crash. You don't need some fancy computer to help you crash. The 767/757 were picked because they are the easiest planes to fly. Unlike the early Boeing jets which had some control issues, the 757/767 were easy to fly and the bad flying qualities were engineered out. The 707 had a natural dutch-roll mode which made it hard to control for a novice pilot. The terrorists were bad pilots, even bad pilots could figure out which planes were the easiest to control with their inferior level of flight skills and suicide mentality. Flight 77 impacted the Pentagon at 488 knots, that is 560 mph, impacted the Pentagon at nearly sea level. The terrorist was only over max speed for 20 to 30 seconds and he crashed. Flight 11 did not exceed dive speed. OOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Flight 175 was in a dive all the way to the WTC, he impacted at 590 mph, in a dive, he crashed, not much control in crashing. What is the poor person's claim? The terrorists all crashed on 911; the dolt is right, you can't control a plane over 500 mph, you crash. He is right, and he debunks himself. Not one plane on 911 that exceeded 500 mph survived. So? There is nothing stopping the planes on 911 from exceeding MACH 1, they are just too clean. If you take a 767/757 up high enough, and point it at the ground, it will exceed MACH 1, an engine may fall off, skill might be ripped off the plane, etc. Ask the brilliant scholar to show the equations, the math why the plane can't go over 500 mph. Final summary. Flight 93 failed to reach the target, it crashed over 500 mph at a 40 degree angle down into the ground; failure. Flight 11, impacted near dive speed, a speed allowed by certification, etc. Flight 77, impacted at 560 mph, over 350 knots for less than 30 seconds. It crashed. Flight 175, was very high, had to dive all the way to the WTC, no way to slow down, impact near 590 mph, it crashed. If you have not flown a jet, a clean jet (landing gear up, flaps up, speed brakes down) it is near impossible to slow down at angles greater than 3 degrees. You would carry cruise speed all the way to the ground at angles greater than 3 degrees, or so. There is no magical wall stopping modern jet planes from going over 500 mph at any altitude. When I exceeded the maximum speed at 500 of a KC-135, the plane was more stable, and controllable. When a fellow pilot exceeded max speed for a while, his aircraft lost some skin (metal) from under the wing. If we fly over the max speed all the time, the aircraft will not meet expected life. Flight 93 crashed at over 500 mph, in a steep dive. Does not count as being controlled flight, they crashed. Flight 11 never exceeded certificated speeds. Flight 77 exceeded max speed for 20 seconds and crashed. Flight 175 steep dive into the WTC at 590 mph, crashed. Not sure if you call these flight under control, they all crashed. I feel better about flying Boeing 767/757 knowing they did not shed major parts and skin as see on video on 911, Flight 175 seemed to be in one major piece at impact, that is a strong airframe, very good controls. Which part of the video of Flight 175 does the poor person fail to comprehend is a Boeing 767 going 590 mph at impact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, welshbairn said: I can't make sense of this mess. Watch this 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 http://911blogger.com/news/2010-06-24/nasa-flight-director-confirms-911-aircraft-speed-improbable 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 "I'm a 757 pilot for a major airline and have discussed the speed of flight 175 and flight 77 with nearly every pilot I've flown a trip with. Nearly every one of them say (after they think about it) that flight 77 in to pentagon not possible with the decending maneuver at that speed. For you airline pilots out there that would be an Rnav RNP approach at Mach 1... in visual conditions (tougher). Nobody, I mean nobody can do that. Not even a professional pilot with a "fighter" background. Something else did that precision maneuver. I'm sure this topic has been beat to death.. I'm open minded to a legitimate debate with any airline pilots that thinks that's possible." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 They were trying to crash their planes and exceeded health and safety limits. Highly irresponsible but it doesn't mean it didn't happen. http://www.angelfire.com/indie/aerostuff/F-104SpeedRecord.htm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 19 minutes ago, Kuro said: I can't make sense of this mess. Watch this You’ve managed to find a questionable expert who has been invited to say that it’s impossible that a plane which was filmed by hundreds and witnessed by millions crashing into a building at a particular speed could have crashed into a building at a particular speed. This was a plane which (like all commercial planes) had a list of people on board, which took off from a busy airport after being directed to do so and which was tracked by air traffic control at least until it deviated from its normal flight path and headed for New York. Please do anything you can to get out of jury service if you’re ever cited. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, The OP said: You’ve managed to find a questionable expert who has been invited to say that it’s impossible that a plane which was filmed by hundreds and witnessed by millions crashing into a building at a particular speed could have crashed into a building at a particular speed. This was a plane which (like all commercial planes) had a list of people on board, which took off from a busy airport after being directed to do so and which was tracked by air traffic control at least until it deviated from its normal flight path and headed for New York. Please do anything you can to get out of jury service if you’re ever cited. What qualifies you to question his credentials? How do you know it was the same plane? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Kuro said: What qualifies you to question his credentials? How do you know it was the same plane? Physics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, The OP said: Physics. What physics? They switched the transponder off 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Kuro said: What physics? They switched the transponder off I’m mocking you mate. On balance, it’s more fun when you realise than when you don’t. But seriously, he’s a military pilot according to a video which has been posted because it supports his position. Do you actually think a military pilot (or any pilot on Earth) is the best person in the world to tell you what a Boeing jet can possibly do, even ignoring the fact his position flies in the face of utterly overwhelming evidence? Edited June 18, 2019 by The OP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, The OP said: I’m mocking you mate. On balance, it’s more fun when you realise than when you don’t. But seriously, he’s a military pilot according to a video which has been posted because it supports his position. Do you actually think a military pilot (or any pilot on Earth) is the best person in the world to tell you what a Boeing jet can possibly do, even ignoring the fact his position flies in the face of utterly overwhelming evidence? What evidence does it fly in the face of? He's a military and civilian pilot. The second pilot actually flew one of the 911 planes personally and says it's impossible. Do you really think you are in a position to question these people? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Just now, Kuro said: What evidence does it fly in the face of? He's a military and civilian pilot. The second pilot actually flew one of the 911 planes personally and says it's impossible. Do you really think you are in a position to question these people? Yes, yes I do. What do you think happened here? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, The OP said: Yes, yes I do. What do you think happened here? So what qualifies you to question them? Give me your background in aviation. If it compares with theirs I'll give you the time of day. A plane hit a building. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Just now, Kuro said: A plane hit a building. Ok, interesting, we’re getting somewhere here. Do you believe that Flight 175 took off from Boston with an intended destination of Los Angeles less than an hour before with a number of named people on board? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, The OP said: Ok, interesting, we’re getting somewhere here. Do you believe that Flight 175 took off from Boston with an intended destination of Los Angeles less than an hour before with a number of named people on board? Sure. That bears no relevance when discussing a plane hitting a building in New York. You really don't know anything about this and have never looked into it at all. Which I told you at the start. The 'loonballs 'are always the ones who actually have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Kuro said: Sure. Ok. Do you believe that Flight 175 which you accept took off from Boston reached its intended destination of LAX? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, The OP said: Ok. Do you believe that Flight 175 which you accept took off from Boston reached its intended destination of LAX? Sigh. Look mate you're an idiot with zero knowledge of any of this. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, The OP said: Ok. Do you believe that Flight 175 which you accept took off from Boston reached its intended destination of LAX? Before I go, you still haven't answered why was the 'plane' that bit the pentagon not picked up on cctv? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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