RandomGuy. Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Exactly why should a club like, say, St. Johnstone even bother with a youth set up when any youth of talent will be signed up to the elite 8. Exactly. We've spent the last five years utterly revamping the youths under the instructions of Alastair Stevenson, we've spent a relative fortune to the point that four youth players got professional contracts this Summer. We've got two youth players as certain starters, with another two who've featured in the last two seasons, and that's ignoring the likes of Gordon and Hurst who we signed young. We've also had around ten youth players in loan further down the system over the past two seasons. All that would be money down the drain of this happened, and I'd be amazed if we ever bothered returning to this level we're at just now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aylo vanal Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 The point of 8 teams is to get the best players playing the best players as often as possible. It makes sense. Pro youth is bloated for the sake of it, kids who aren't cutting it are better off playing for boys clubs then sitting on the bench elsewhere. They might then develop into better players and get signed again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 It's already being cut from 29. If the press reports are correct then it was proposed to make the cut to 16 but this has then morphed into 2 'levels' of 8. There's also the separate issues of what rewards, perks and first-dibs the "Lucky 8" receive; how they are selected; how they are amended in future; etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 It's already being cut from 29. If the press reports are correct then it was proposed to make the cut to 16 but this has then morphed into 2 'levels' of 8. There's also the separate issues of what rewards, perks and first-dibs the "Lucky 8" receive; how they are selected; how they are amended in future; etc. etc. It's that second part that really concerns me - I could accept having a limited number of academies if they were not linked directly to clubs.Players then coming out of academies could possibly be allocated using some sort of draft system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staggie52 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 3 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: It's that second part that really concerns me - I could accept having a limited number of academies if they were not linked directly to clubs. Players then coming out of academies could possibly be allocated using some sort of draft system. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aylo vanal Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 6 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: It's that second part that really concerns me - I could accept having a limited number of academies if they were not linked directly to clubs. Players then coming out of academies could possibly be allocated using some sort of draft system. Who's going to pay for that though? Celtic spend wads on youth development the SFA won't be able to match what clubs spend meaning less funding. Nice idea but not practical in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Who's going to pay for that though? Celtic spend wads on youth development the SFA won't be able to match what clubs spend meaning less funding. Nice idea but not practical in Scotland. Dunno maybe this would have to be a tie up between SFA and SPFL clubs pay a % of turnover perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 16 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: It's that second part that really concerns me - I could accept having a limited number of academies if they were not linked directly to clubs. Players then coming out of academies could possibly be allocated using some sort of draft system. Can a draft system really work? A nice idea but can you really force a player to join a club hundreds of miles from where hes from when he knows more local clubs want him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityDave Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 7 minutes ago, gannonball said: Can a draft system really work? A nice idea but can you really force a player to join a club hundreds of miles from where hes from when he knows more local clubs want him? Its often hard for young footballers to move away from their homes sometimes when they are not ready for that. I think it would discourage young players and some might give up playing football rather than move the length of Scotland to play for a club where there is no connection. A draft system would point many young Scottish players towards moving to England where there is a choice rather than a draft system, they might as well move there through choice rather than being forced to play for some random selected Scottish club. A draft system is too restrictive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 6 minutes ago, CityDave said: Its often hard for young footballers to move away from their homes sometimes when they are not ready for that. I think it would discourage young players and some might give up playing football rather than move the length of Scotland to play for a club where there is no connection. A draft system would point many young Scottish players towards moving to England where there is a choice rather than a draft system, they might as well move there through choice rather than being forced to play for some random selected Scottish club. A draft system is too restrictive. Regarding England thats what I was thinking as well. The more I think about it its pie in the sky stuff,would wonder about the legality of it all as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Can a draft system really work? A nice idea but can you really force a player to join a club hundreds of miles from where hes from when he knows more local clubs want him? Some sort of trading or even buying picks could work. In any case I would see any draft as being time-limited - for example maximum 3 years (perhaps 2). It also wouldn't be illegal if framed correctly - there are hundreds of jobs where trainees have to go where they don't particularly want to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staggie52 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 3 hours ago, gannonball said: Can a draft system really work? A nice idea but can you really force a player to join a club hundreds of miles from where hes from when he knows more local clubs want him? I guess your just using exaggeration but for a player to move hundreds of miles in Scotland he'd have to be based well away from the central belt. None of the proposed academies are hundreds of miles from Dingwall and we're treated as if we're at the ends of the earth when teams have to come up here. Cue jokes about sheep, tractors etc. in reality, if we only move players when they reach 16 and they want a career in football, moving a couple of hours from home to further their career shouldn't be a problem. I doubt if it would be a problem if a top English club came to them at that age and offered them a fortune to move down South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 I guess your just using exaggeration but for a player to move hundreds of miles in Scotland he'd have to be based well away from the central belt. None of the proposed academies are hundreds of miles from Dingwall and we're treated as if we're at the ends of the earth when teams have to come up here. Cue jokes about sheep, tractors etc. in reality, if we only move players when they reach 16 and they want a career in football, moving a couple of hours from home to further their career shouldn't be a problem. I doubt if it would be a problem if a top English club came to them at that age and offered them a fortune to move down South. What they are proposing will move many players away from home - 6 central belt academies, Aberdeen and the Highlands misses out large parts of Scotland.I can imagine that St Johnstone, the Dundee and Angus clubs are not all enamoured by the SFA's proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Dunno if this was posted in here but Robert Rowan, who is head of Football Operations at Brentford, gave a presentation to the SFA convention about their decision to scrap their academy. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/38178077 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Here's an article by Robert Rowan on the B team model at Brentford http://www.brentfordfc.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/brentford-b-team-introduced-by-rob-rowan-3220879.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarballs Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 5 hours ago, ICTChris said: Dunno if this was posted in here but Robert Rowan, who is head of Football Operations at Brentford, gave a presentation to the SFA convention about their decision to scrap their academy. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/38178077 5 hours ago, ICTChris said: Here's an article by Robert Rowan on the B team model at Brentford http://www.brentfordfc.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/brentford-b-team-introduced-by-rob-rowan-3220879.aspx Interesting stuff, good read. A well thought-out, forward-thinking, alternative strategy for the future from a guy and club who very much sound like they know what they're doing. All of which means there's bugger all chance of seeing anything remotely similar up here in Scotland. About as much chance as Chick Young actually retiring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted December 7, 2016 Author Share Posted December 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, Jarballs said: Interesting stuff, good read. A well thought-out, forward-thinking, alternative strategy for the future from a guy and club who very much sound like they know what they're doing. All of which means there's bugger all chance of seeing anything remotely similar up here in Scotland. About as much chance as Chick Young actually retiring I don't see how the model of Brentford can be replicated across the whole of Scottish football. They are scavengers who want to pick up any good players not identified by bigger clubs. They don't have a youth set up. I don't see how that applies here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarballs Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 5 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said: I don't see how the model of Brentford can be replicated across the whole of Scottish football. They are scavengers who want to pick up any good players not identified by bigger clubs. They don't have a youth set up. I don't see how that applies here. Nah, you're right, it probably wouldn't. Would just be nice to have something different that sounded well-planned out and might possibly work given a proper bash, instead of the usual half-baked stuff. I usually just keep my mouth shut on here and laugh at the amusing insults Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 The SFA will see "scrap youth teams and bring in B teams" in that report, and that only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 One thing about youth teams is how do you measure success? We've had poor results for years in the under 20s / development league but if we produce one or two first team players does it matter? Also, I know it was a few pages ago, but a draft system has zero chance of working in Scottish football for lots and lots of reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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