Capitalism vs Socialism

[Deplorable]

7 hours ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

Feel free to list all the lovely capitalist countries in Central America/the Caribbean. It was a Mafia-run shithole before Castro took over. It could have been better... and certainly would've been had America not acted like little birches and blocked off their main trade outlet.

Communism was, undoubtedly, a success story for Cuba.

Again, Cuba confiscated all American owned property on the island with no compensation. What were we supposed to do?

I think baseball presents the perfect example of the Cuban communist system. Castro is a big baseball fan and was offended by the concept that US ballplayers had "owners." It's true in those days that players were tied to the major league club with which they originally signed. Their only leverage was holding out or signing with one of the competing leagues or barnstorming all star teams that would pop up from time to time. Castro reformed Cuban baseball when he took over. Under the new system all players must play for life for their local team. Haha. You just replaced limited options that have a chance to get better (and did with the eventual introduction of free agency for veteran players in US baseball), with complete subservience to the state, and for less money. You have stories like Orlando Hernandez crash landing his boat on a deserted island and thinking he was going to starve to death before he was rescued day's later. He was trying to get to the US to pitch after being banned from Cuban baseball because his brother had defected and became a World Series MVP for the Marlins. He went on to pitch for the Yankees in the World Series. You have Yasiel Puig being held hostage for weeks at gunpoint by the Mexican cartels that smuggled him off the island while they negotiated with his future agents the % of his future pay that he would receive. Puig now has a $42 million dollar contract with the Dodgers. I assume he and his family live under threat if they don't pay up. You have the recently deceased Marlins pitcher Jose Fernadez who finally successfully defected on his 4th attempt. He spent months in jail after his previous attempts. On his successful attempt he had to jump out of the boat to save his drowning mother who was washed overboard..

[Deplorable]

Here's the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary Brothers in Exile about the Hernandez brothers story. Baseball in Cuba where labor is "free" from exploitation vs. baseball in the US. It's good if you like sports.

 

[Peppino Impastato]

Absolute nonsense,  they were compensated 100% based on the artificially low values American companies had been putting on their own properties in Cuba for years in order to, dodge tax.   They were given every penny they were due,  and got what they deserved for spending years and years robbing the people of Cuba.   Google it.  And God forbid a country should benefit from and have control of its own resources instead of allowing the US empire to continue to exploit and pillage them.

 

And rounders isn't a sport.

[Peppino Impastato]

Allen dulles was a major shareholder in United fruit btw.   Head of the cia at the bay of pigs.  Talk about conflict of interest. 

[Bully Wee Villa]

Also worth bearing in mind a few years earlier Britain planned to invade Egypt following a similar nationalisation and America were against the plan.

[Peppino Impastato]

Yet did the same itself in Panama

[Deplorable]

30 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Absolute nonsense,  they were compensated 100% based on the artificially low values American companies had been putting on their own properties in Cuba for years in order to, dodge tax.   They were given every penny they were due,  and got what they deserved for spending years and years robbing the people of Cuba.   Google it.  And God forbid a country should benefit from and have control of its own resources instead of allowing the US empire to continue to exploit and pillage them.

 

And rounders isn't a sport.

I will look it up. Thanks for the info.

Like I said in the Castro thread, he fucked up big time. He was in complete military control of his country and the USA government was ambivalent about him at first. He was in the position to work towards a better deal for his people regarding their relationship with the USA and to help the poor in his country. Instead he decided to keep playing revolutionary against the evil Yankees instead of behaving like an adult, and the result that is that his country is an impoverished, totalitarian state. (More to do with the Communist system than a US blockade.) The guy was a complete wackjob. We know from Soviet files that Castro advocated for a nuclear first strike on the USA.

The US took Puerto Rico and Cuba from Spain at the same time. We set Cuba free and kept Puerto Rico. Not that Puerto Rico is some paradise, but which island would you want to be born on if you had to choose?

 

[Deplorable]

Another Cuba sports related story that's been in the news here recently.

The 49ers American egg chase QB has been kneeling for the national anthem this year. He wore a shirt with Castro earlier at a press conference, and their team played in Miami last week. A Miami Dolphins beat writer who was born in Cuba questioned him and Kaepernick talked about how Cuba spends it's money on education instead of prisons which split people up like the US. The beat writer told his story about coming to America. When he was born his parents decided that they wanted to raise him in the US. They applied for an exit visa with the Cuban government rather than braving the seas. Both of his parents were fired from their jobs the next day and spent years struggling to survive. After years of waiting their exit visa was granted. Upon arrival at the airport a military man checked their papers. He looked at the father and said only two of them were going to leave. The mother and son got on the plane and went to the USA without a man to support them once they arrived. They had to wait years again before the father was allowed to rejoin his family in Miami. That's the Cuban system.

[Cream Cheese]

Deplorable talks about things that he has seen in the western media regarding Castro and Cuba and laps in up as evidence for his "Cuba are bad" stance. A typical pro-western capitalist who never questions anything his own government wishes him to believe about the rest of the world. A lost cause if i've ever seen one.

[Peppino Impastato]

How many people do you think the USA has killed since 9-11?  Any guesses.  I'll go for 2 million. 

[Bully Wee Villa]

Yes, there can be little doubt who wins on foreign policy.

Cuba, to my knowledge, got involved in one foreign war. Helped liberate Angola from South African imperialist ambitions and, ultimately, accelerated the demise of Apartheid.

Sum boiz.

[Deplorable]

10 hours ago, Cream Cheese said:

Deplorable talks about things that he has seen in the western media regarding Castro and Cuba and laps in up as evidence for his "Cuba are bad" stance. A typical pro-western capitalist who never questions anything his own government wishes him to believe about the rest of the world. A lost cause if i've ever seen one.

If a lost cause means I'm appalled by mass execution of political opponents, torture of non-violent opponents of the government, appropriation of all property to the state, dictatorship, etc, I guess that's a hill I'm willing to die on.

 

Again, would you rather be born in Cuba or Puerto Rico?

 

[hehawhehaw]

12 hours ago, Deplorable said:

I will look it up. Thanks for the info.

Like I said in the Castro thread, he fucked up big time. He was in complete military control of his country and the USA government was ambivalent about him at first. He was in the position to work towards a better deal for his people regarding their relationship with the USA and to help the poor in his country. Instead he decided to keep playing revolutionary against the evil Yankees instead of behaving like an adult, and the result that is that his country is an impoverished, totalitarian state. (More to do with the Communist system than a US blockade.) The guy was a complete wackjob. We know from Soviet files that Castro advocated for a nuclear first strike on the USA.

The US took Puerto Rico and Cuba from Spain at the same time. We set Cuba free and kept Puerto Rico. Not that Puerto Rico is some paradise, but which island would you want to be born on if you had to choose?

 

I refer you back to the 6th post on this thread. I note I have not had an answer from any of the socialists.

Enough said.

[Cream Cheese]

3 hours ago, Deplorable said:

If a lost cause means I'm appalled by mass execution of political opponents, torture of non-violent opponents of the government, appropriation of all property to the state, dictatorship, etc, I guess that's a hill I'm willing to die on.

 

Again, would you rather be born in Cuba or Puerto Rico?

 

Neither. I'm quite satisfied where I am. But if I was to book a holiday somewhere, I'd choose Cuba over Puerto Rico.

[Cream Cheese]

1 hour ago, hehawhehaw said:

I refer you back to the 6th post on this thread. I note I have not had an answer from any of the socialists.

Enough said.

You have had answers. It's just not the answers you want.

[hehawhehaw]

51 minutes ago, Cream Cheese said:

You have had answers. It's just not the answers you want.

I don't think so hen. To chose a Country would be an answer. None have do so. If you can't see that you are deflecting, and I think it's because you know what the true answers would be.

[John Lambies Doos]

Think Cuba would be an OK place to live tbh. Great education and health system. Guaranteed job and house, lovely cars and great weather

[hehawhehaw]

17 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Think Cuba would be an OK place to live tbh. Great education and health system. Guaranteed job and house, lovely cars and great weather

Self deception can't be healthy.

You took the bait and jumped out the plane without a parachute. 

[Newbornbairn]

 

The jeep pulling his ashes broke down. That's Cuba in a nutshell.

[Deplorable]

On 12/4/2016 at 02:53, hehawhehaw said:

I refer you back to the 6th post on this thread. I note I have not had an answer from any of the socialists.

Enough said.

They will just claim that countries like the USA and Australia are rich based off exploiting 3rd world countries. That's their worldview.

Puerto Rico and Cuba share a very similar history, except that the USA gave Cuba it's independence and kept Puerto Rico as a territory. They deal with the same brain drain issue as residents of both islands have automatic settlement rights in the US. Cuba was richer throughout it's whole history, right up until Castro. Cubans are way, way more successful in the United States compared to Puerto Ricans. Yet at this point Puerto Rico is around alot of central and southern European countries economically. Why? Maybe being in the American orbit isn't always so bad.