The Moonster Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 22 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said: Or maybe they got the feedback from folks like me that showed them the downsides from various other perspectives and provided fresh insight Can you provide this "fresh insight" for us then? Because all we're seen from you so far is waffle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Can you provide this "fresh insight" for us then? Because all we're seen from you so far is waffle. Better my consistent waffle than your consistent awful 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 56 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said: Better my consistent waffle than your consistent awful Great insight. Well done on keeping the debate honest again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 23 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Great insight. Well done on keeping the debate honest again. Yes I have provided a deal of insight and honest comment to this debate without being a slave to bias and blinkered attitudes. But I am not about to repeat myself again and again or just react to empty jibes. You don't like the idea because of the Old Firm we got that - you've nothing else to contribute beyond that - fine. I don't like the idea but am willing to listen and consider the pros and cons in a reasonable manner and I doubt I will ever support it but my mind isn't just closed because of who is mainly promoting the idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Yes I have provided a deal of insight and honest comment to this debate without being a slave to bias and blinkered attitudes. But I am not about to repeat myself again and again or just react to empty jibes. You don't like the idea because of the Old Firm we got that - you've nothing else to contribute beyond that - fine. I don't like the idea but am willing to listen and consider the pros and cons in a reasonable manner and I doubt I will ever support it but my mind isn't just closed because of who is mainly promoting the idea. Translation: Mind isnt closed in case the bribe ever increases past your threshold of acceptability. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Cowden Cowboy said: Yes I have provided a deal of insight and honest comment to this debate without being a slave to bias and blinkered attitudes. But I am not about to repeat myself again and again or just react to empty jibes. You don't like the idea because of the Old Firm we got that - you've nothing else to contribute beyond that - fine. I don't like the idea but am willing to listen and consider the pros and cons in a reasonable manner and I doubt I will ever support it but my mind isn't just closed because of who is mainly promoting the idea. Honest and insightful comment such as trying to pass off a Daily fucking Record poll as evidence of support for the idea? I don't like the idea because there isn't a shred of evidence that the proposed system will provide a better benefit to young players than the system we currently have. I'm quite happy to stick the boot into Motherwell or Hearts or Hibs if they choose to support the idea, but you've admitted on the last page yourself that it's only really the Old Firm pushing it, so of course they will receive the bulk of the abuse for proposing such a stupid idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullTimePint Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 On 4/22/2019 at 13:48, Cowden Cowboy said: Just the different majorities required to pass different things for example some things need 90% of Premier Clubs to support to pass even if every other club is in favour. Not that unusual - as the Premier clubs generate most of the SPFL's income. It is open to any club to win Premier League status of course. This is one of the problems re SFA Membership for ex-junior clubs - one club one vote in SFA means that influence of Premier and SPFL clubs could be reduced and indeed outvoted in the SFA. That is not something they are likely to meekly accept. Tail wags dog - again just a viewpoint not something I have brought down from the mount on tablets of stone. , I genuinely never knew this, but reading your post it makes sense i suppose. Like others have said, what a terrible structure 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullTimePint Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 On 4/22/2019 at 22:10, Marten said: The success of the Dutch youth system* is due to a number of factors. Coaching, better training structures, better youth structures across Dutch football, non-league clubs working with local league clubs and so on. Copying the "colt team" side of the Dutch youth structure and nothing else is basically copying the least important part of the structure. A number of Dutch clubs are pulling their colt teams out of the pyramid system as they claim it's not having the desired effect. The whole proposal is madness and if it ever goes ahead, it should be part of a large scale reform, on it's own it will never work. *I know the Dutch national team have been horrible in recent years and in club results Ajax' run is clearly exceptional, but I'm talking about the long term, over the last few decades. I can't remember where i read it, but i am sure Van Der Sar was saying something along the lines of 50% of the profits on incoming transfer fees at Ajax are poured back into the youth development system at the club to help fund the coaching and infrastructure. I think there is also a more equal distribution of prize/european/tv rights cash in the Dutch leagues to help more than a few clubs prosper. We have seen a good few teams up here, and down south scrap their youth teams all together to focus their cash only on the first team. As you say it is just a single pronged focus, and colt teams will not be a silver bullet to help youth development. Coaching and player development is inherently built into the footballing DNA in holland, whereas we seem to have a different approach every 5/6 years 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 16 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Honest and insightful comment such as trying to pass off a Daily fucking Record poll as evidence of support for the idea? I don't like the idea because there isn't a shred of evidence that the proposed system will provide a better benefit to young players than the system we currently have. I'm quite happy to stick the boot into Motherwell or Hearts or Hibs if they choose to support the idea, but you've admitted on the last page yourself that it's only really the Old Firm pushing it, so of course they will receive the bulk of the abuse for proposing such a stupid idea. But the Daily Record poll is 100% evidence of some support for the idea - not passing off anything. Just decrying it doesn't change reality. What was being peddled by some here was that there were literally no Scottish football fans in favour. The reality is different once you step outside your cocoon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 But the Daily Record poll is 100% evidence of some support for the idea - not passing off anything. Just decrying it doesn't change reality. What was being peddled by some here was that there were literally no Scottish football fans in favour. The reality is different once you step outside your cocoon. The fans in favour are all massive c***s though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said: But the Daily Record poll is 100% evidence of some support for the idea - not passing off anything. Just decrying it doesn't change reality. What was being peddled by some here was that there were literally no Scottish football fans in favour. The reality is different once you step outside your cocoon. I hope that one day I will burst from my cocoon and fly high like the wonderful butterfly you are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: The fans in favour are all massive c***s though. That's as maybe - very Brexitish response though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Officer Barbrady Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 48 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said: That's as maybe - very Brexitish response though From one of *that* mob, what else do you expect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullyweehutch Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Get this idea in the bin along with Cowden Cowboy. Both as ridiculous as the other 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 On 22/04/2019 at 23:34, PELE said: Agree. We don't have a sensible plan. We just seem to copy something from other nations because they have a little bit of success. Two German teams reach the Champions League final and all of a sudden we think we should copy whatever they do. Too many dinosaurs involved. What hope did we have when the likes of Strachan had an input. According to him we should pick kids based on their height, not ability. Re the Dutch team. They finished 2nd and 3rd in two of the last three World Cups, made the finals of one of the last two Euro's and are in the semi finals of the Nation's League in a few months. Better than most other nations in the last nine years. It's like seeing that France won the World Cup and deciding that playing in the colours France do will bring us success. Lazy and stupid, looking for a quick fix and giving the impression they can't be arsed to do any research and work. Also I can't let this slide; why have you added an apostrophe to Euros and Nations? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Officer Barbrady Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 On 22/04/2019 at 22:10, Marten said: The success of the Dutch youth system* is due to a number of factors. Coaching, better training structures, better youth structures across Dutch football, non-league clubs working with local league clubs and so on. Copying the "colt team" side of the Dutch youth structure and nothing else is basically copying the least important part of the structure. A number of Dutch clubs are pulling their colt teams out of the pyramid system as they claim it's not having the desired effect. The whole proposal is madness and if it ever goes ahead, it should be part of a large scale reform, on it's own it will never work. *I know the Dutch national team have been horrible in recent years and in club results Ajax' run is clearly exceptional, but I'm talking about the long term, over the last few decades. From a Dutch viewpoint, that could be a severely kneejerk reaction given that €20m-plus sales have been a regular feature this century and Frenkie de Jong is about to go for €75m. The fact Dutch products are in the majority of these, yet haven't reached a finals lately doesn't suggest it's a quality issue. I've long considered over-coaching to be the Antichrist of player development, given that we in Scotland continue to piss thousands of man hours away on trying to achieve a 1% improvement from utterly shite and disinterested players. And that is the mistake which we will make if we try to follow suit, even if i think Holland should remain loyal to their tried and tested format which at least leaves the players with the basic technique required. If the coaches now can't get results from the current best 1,500 or so 'professional' players, then what can more coaches (at more clubs, if that's how the Colts will be considered...) possibly get from the inevitably larger pool of lesser-ability players required to fulfil it? It's complete bullshit, the whole thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Burton Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/4169387/dutch-chiefs-follow-scottish-premiership-eredivisie/amp/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=trueNow the Dutch want to copy Scotland and have their best teams play each other more often.Ajax obviously wanting to do a Celtic or Rangers and copy their success. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PELE Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 18 hours ago, DA Baracus said: It's like seeing that France won the World Cup and deciding that playing in the colours France do will bring us success. Lazy and stupid, looking for a quick fix and giving the impression they can't be arsed to do any research and work. Also I can't let this slide; why have you added an apostrophe to Euros and Nations? My stupid phone like's adding in apostrophe's and I was too busy to come back and edit the post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 My stupid phone like's adding in apostrophe's and I was too busy to come back and edit the post.Euro's could be ok as a contraction of Europeans though - the apostrophe representing the 'pean'! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 On 26/04/2019 at 17:06, Jack Burton said: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/4169387/dutch-chiefs-follow-scottish-premiership-eredivisie/amp/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true Now the Dutch want to copy Scotland and have their best teams play each other more often. Ajax obviously wanting to do a Celtic or Rangers and copy their success. Old news, a vote amongst clubs put the idea of fewer teams in the top flight where it belongs: in the bin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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