StewartyMac Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Miller is no more sharper, fitter or more clinical now than he was 3 months ago or last season. 669006[/snapback] Wrong. The man himself has admitted he is, and I'd take his view over yours. And you only need to look at his physique to know he looks more robust than even a few months ago. If you look at Miller's club record he has been a very consistent goalscorer - he wasn't bad before and he's not suddenly become a superstar. Club form is no barometer of International form. 2 words. Steve Archibald. I've never once said that Miller was a really bad player, all I said was his International form was poor before the Austria game (honking I believe was the actual phraseology ), and that is something which is undeniable. It's the 'I told you so' merchants that I'm opposing, the same people who you don't hear a peep out of when one of their bold predictions goes horribly awry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Sensible Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Kenny Miller has so far scored 1 goal in 7 games for Wolves this season - that single goal coming a 5-1 home win over Chester City. Miller has in fact been booked more often for Wolves this season that goals scored. Sorry, what was it folk were saying about Miller being fitter and sharper this season?................ 1 goal in 7 games is terrible, Miller is a shocking striker and should never play for Wolves again, etc, etc, blah, blah.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Sensible Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Club form is no barometer of International form. 2 words. Steve Archibald. 669042[/snapback] A classic example of a player that was heavily abused by the Scotland support because he played in England. In fact Kenny Dalglish was usually criticised for not reproducing his club form at international level. It wasn't until he was well into his 30s that folk got off his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 A classic example of a player that was heavily abused by the Scotland support because he played in England. You don't think it had anything to do with him being pretty mince at International level then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 1 goal in 7 games is terrible, Miller is a shocking striker and should never play for Wolves again, etc, etc, blah, blah.......... 669047[/snapback] It's a valid argument on paper, but ask any Wolves fan, and they will tell you he has been playing a lot better in the first few weeks of this season than last year. 1 goal in 7 games is quite a poor return for a striker, however he's playing well. The difference with his poor Scotland return (at the time) was that he wasn't playing well as well as not scoring. What is it about this that you don't understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Sensible Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 It's a valid argument on paper, but ask any Wolves fan, and they will tell you he has been playing a lot better in the first few weeks of this season than last year. And how many Wolves fans have you asked that question? 1 goal in 7 games is quite a poor return for a striker, however he's playing well. How do you know? How many Wolves games have you seen this season? The difference with his poor Scotland return (at the time) was that he wasn't playing well as well as not scoring. In your opinion What is it about this that you don't understand? 669078[/snapback] All of it. Your main argument was that Miller's 2 goals in 20 games for Scotland proved that he wasn't doing the business. Yet you are now saying that he IS doing the business for Wolves despite only scoring once in 7 games.......... You can't have it both ways. In my opinion Miller is no better nor worse than he was last season. He's just had more luck in front of goal for Scotland and less luck for Wolves. What is it about this that you don't understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 And how many Wolves fans have you asked that question? How many Scotland fans do you personally know who villified Archibald and Dalglish for playing for English clubs? How do you know? How many Wolves games have you seen this season? All of them. Your main argument was that Miller's 2 goals in 20 games for Scotland proved that he wasn't doing the business. Yet you are now saying that he IS doing the business for Wolves despite only scoring once in 7 games..........You can't have it both ways. As I said before, had Miller just been unlucky and had played well in those previous Scotland matches, his poor goalscoring return would have been more acceptable. You can play well and not score (eg Miller at Wolves this season so far), or you can play poor and score loads (eg McCoist for most of his Rangers career). Either scenario will win you favour with supporters. To not score AND play poorly is a different kettle of fish altogether. Ask the Rangers fans about McCoist's first couple of years at Ibrox. I honestly cannot believe you think that Kenny Miller has not improved as not just a striker, but as a footballer, over the last 6 months. I'd like to think you're not in that dullest of dullard 'wind up mode'. Confidence is also a big part of his game, and it'll be interesting to see how he copes if he loses this over the next year or so, but I happen to think he might have turned the corner in his career. Next step, the Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Sensible Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 How many Scotland fans do you personally know who villified Archibald and Dalglish for playing for English clubs? Quite a few. I see you ignored my question. All of them. So, you've watched all 7 Wolves matches this season then? How's that then? And even if you have, its still your own opinion! It was YOU who was using goalscoring stats to show how Miller had been for Scotland - now you are dismissing his goalscoring stats for Wolves because it no longer suits your argument! As I said before, had Miller just been unlucky and had played well in those previous Scotland matches, his poor goalscoring return would have been more acceptable. You can play well and not score (eg Miller at Wolves this season so far), or you can play poor and score loads (eg McCoist for most of his Rangers career). Either scenario will win you favour with supporters. To not score AND play poorly is a different kettle of fish altogether. Ask the Rangers fans about McCoist's first couple of years at Ibrox. I honestly cannot believe you think that Kenny Miller has not improved as not just a striker, but as a footballer, over the last 6 months. I'd like to think you're not in that dullest of dullard 'wind up mode'. As I have said already, I don't think he's any better or worse than he was last season! Hardly much of a wind up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 As I have said already, I don't think he's any better or worse than he was last season! And after what feels like about 20 odd posts each, therein lies the whole crux of the 'discussion'. Your opinion on how he played last season is different from mine. I could ask if you saw every game he played in for Wolves last season, but I won't. We could go on all day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 I see you ignored my question. Oh, and in answer to your question, none. I don't think that proves anything. After all, I've never ever asked a Celtic fan what they thought about Henrik Larsson for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Sensible Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Oh, and in answer to your question, none. I don't think that proves anything. After all, I've never ever asked a Celtic fan what they thought about Henrik Larsson for example. 669126[/snapback] It proves that you don't really know if all Wolves really do think that Miller is playing better this season than last! I suspect that they all don't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBairn Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 What a pointless argument. The Kenny Miller of six months ago is not as good as the Kenny Miller of today. Miller's movement has greatly improved, and you have seen that in the taking of his goal against Italy and his first against Norway. Its hypothetical but if Kenny Miller had both those infamous chances tomorrowI think he would have scored them. He is alot more composed on the ball now.He used to snatch at chances, and if you had seen him for Wolves last season he could have had many more than 20 goals. However I agree Kenny Miller wasnt a bad player six months ago, and I dont necesarily think he was denied decent service. He was just unconfident and didnt believe in his own ability. He now has that belief in himself and you can see how good a player that he could easily become. Captain Sensible he is alot fitter than he was last season. Miller said in an interview before the Italian game that he has lost a stone in weight since he started a new training regime under Glenn Hoddle. He has also been given intensive striking coaching, mainly working on his movement and has scored four goals in less than three games. That would prove that infact he is sharper, more clinical and fitter than he was six months ago. Was he a bad player six months ago? No he wasnt. Is he a better player right now? Yes he is. 669026[/snapback] Exactly! Miller looks much more confident and he said himself that he felt fitter, sharper and he has lost over 1 stone in weight. ( I believe he made a comment on Football Stickers basing him on his weight at 17 for a while ) My mate says hes seen just about all his performances for Wolves this season and he looks a much improved player on last season. His overall play such as runs, controlling, turning, shielding etc has improved alot. I think that Hoddle and Smith should take some credit for that, as well as Miller himself getting credit for putting in the hard work to improve his game. He looked a different player against Italy (Partly to do with service and partly because he was sharper, faster and more confident), had the game of his life in that game. He was even getting to some of the poor passes and taking the Italy defence on. Made them look very ordinary at times! Hopefully it will continue and *fingers crossed* Scotland have found a striker for a good few years! Well done lad, keep it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Straight from the horses mouth....... Nevertheless, Miller seems happy enough with life at Molineux for the time being and after scoring at the weekend hailed Hoddle's role in his impressive form."Glenn Hoddle has been working hard on the training ground to improve my movement," Miller said. "He is a superb coach and there is no doubt he has added something special to my game. That suggests to me he thinks he is a far better player than he was last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 My mate says hes seen just about all his performances for Wolves this season and he looks a much improved player on last season. His overall play such as runs, controlling, turning, shielding etc has improved alot. There you go Cap, answer that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James.Connolly.woz.a.Hibee Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 I must admit, I was one of the many crying out for Kenny Miller to be dropped, how wrong can you be? Credit must go to Walter Smith and especially Coisty for having faith in him and giving him the encouragement he desperately needed. His 1st goal last night was top drawer, thankfully now he is fulfilling the potential he showed before the **** nearly ruined him after luring him from Easter Road (hang your head in shame Gordon Smith). Special mention has to go to Darren Fletcher, he covered every blade of grass last night, one of the best performances in a Scotland jersey for a very long time. It's a pity the Morons at the SFA never got rid of the wee Hitler a bit sooner, a playoff place would have been guarenteed. Although our chances are slim, the future looks far more encouraging, especially now the under 21's are finally getting their act together. Pride has been restored in Scottish football.......thank feck!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 I must admit, I was one of the many crying out for Kenny Miller to be dropped, how wrong can you be? You weren't wrong, he should've been dropped earlier in the campaign. Keeping him in for the recent games was a good decision though, as has been proved. Who knows, we might have drawn in Italy with another striker playing. We might have beaten Belarus with another striker playing. Possibly not, but we'll never know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted September 9, 2005 Author Share Posted September 9, 2005 You weren't wrong, he should've been dropped earlier in the campaign.669385[/snapback] Nonsense! And who exactly do you think would have been a better option? Even if we accept the hypothesis that Miller is playing better now than he was back then (which is probably true), that doesn't mean he was playing badly then (he wasn't) and it certainly doesn't necessarily mean there was anyone better available (there wasn't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Nonsense!And who exactly do you think would have been a better option? A striker who had a semblence of confidence at the time. Admittedly, not many to choose from, but playing a guy who couldnae hit a coos arse wi a banjo, as the old cliche goes, wasn't the greatest decision. Both Gary O'Connor and Derek Riordan were on fire at the time. Ok, they had no real international experience, but you can't get experience unless you play. Maybe both players should have been blooded earlier. At the end of the day, it's all ifs and buts. The bottom line is Kenny Miller has hit a rich vein of form at International level, and long may it continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLwankwankwank Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 The bottom line is Kenny Miller has hit a rich vein of form at International level, and long may it continue. Yep, now he's being given the service his previous efforts deserved. I wonder if his misses were down to too much pressure and/or blame being put on him by the tabloids and the idiots who read them who even quote them on forums... Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Sensible Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Straight from the horses mouth.......That suggests to me he thinks he is a far better player than he was last season. 669153[/snapback] The bog standard quote from a player saying how great his new manager is, how he's made him a better player, etc, etc, blah, blah, doesn't mean anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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