Thundermonkey Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Now, now girls...play nice. Smith's first 3 games were very defence minded. It was important to build a solid base to build on. Kenny Miller did not cover himself in glory with his 2 misses and IMO was deservedly criticised. It was not just the misses but he look out of his depth. The manager and whole team, not just Miller, were the subject of many a heated discussion on P&B at the time if you recall. Smith then came under criticism for addressing some of the problems we had during the Austria game (does anyone think for a minute he would sub a goalkeeper in a qualifier for the hell of it? It's called experimentation). Miller however scored and the confidence that comes with a goal works wonders. It showed Miller that the manager has faith in him and Miller proved he could provide the goals that Smith wanted. I can't believe we have people arguing over if he was better 6 months ago than now. I suppose we should not be surprised at Captain Sensible mass-debating over past events, he is the master at living in the past. I suppose SPLWWW needs something Scotland related to bump his gums at seeing as we won away from home with one striker against a team who had been unbeaten in something like 11 games on the trot. What matters now is that we support a striker who has hit a purple patch for us at the moment. Who knows if or how long it will last? It would be nice to think we have a new McCoist or Johnston on our hands. If it turns out that Miller is on the same kind of run that Kevin Gallacher or Billy Dodds had a few years ago then we should sit back and enjoy it while it lasts, not argue over it like a bunch of pathetic bedwetters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 I read an interview at the weekend with Hoddle, who says he has been doing intensive work on movement with the Wolves strikers and he cant believe the difference its made to Miller. He said before that Miller wasted a lot of energy making bad runs and didnt get across the defenders enough. I think that was obvious from his days with the **** and previously Scotland. Looks like it is paying off. 668595[/snapback] The above is what HB wrote way back at the start of this thread. That to me says he has improved. And no doubt you'll be on here jumping up and down when Miller eventually does score again for Wolves saying how that proves yopu were right all along! No I wont, as I've explained countless times now, it's not JUST about scoring. Had Miller played well in the games he wasn't scoring for Scotland, that would have been fair enough, but he wasn't scoring AND not playing well. Try and understand this. Wolves turned down a bid of £1.2m for Miller in the summer (even though he can sign for other cclubs in Jan for free) - based on last season's performances - FACT Only because they were greedy and wanted more money for him, they were quite prepared to sell him. A Premiership club tried to buy him in the summer based on last season's performances - FACT. Sunderland tried to buy him as a panic measure. Hence why they bought that donkey, Andy Gray, instead. Any talk of whether Miller is or isn't a better player now compared with last season is purely personal opinion - FACT. Correct. It is. But see HB's post above. Now be a man and admit you're wrong. What's being a man got to do with it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted September 9, 2005 Author Share Posted September 9, 2005 He scored 2 goals in 20 games for Scotland - FACT*I think he is better than what he looked a few months ago - OPINION You and the Cap think otherwise - OPINION *Yes, I know that doesn't tell the whole story, but it's a fact nonetheless. Scoring 1 goal in 7 games for Wolves is also a FACT, I concede that, but I'd be surprised if he stays on that mark for very long. 670129[/snapback] Actually I never said he hasn't improved. I think it's perfectly clear he's playing better than he was six months ago. What I said was he wasn't playing badly then, didn't deserve to be dropped (in contrast to what you said) and was still even then the best available (also in contrast to your own opinion). Your last sentence could equally have been used by me a few months ago when commenting on the 2 in 12 starts stat for Scotland. Which just goes to show the futility of basing an opinion on stats alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Actually I never said he hasn't improved. I think it's perfectly clear he's playing better than he was six months ago. What I said was he wasn't playing badly then, didn't deserve to be dropped (in contrast to what you said) and was still even then the best available (also in contrast to your own opinion).Your last sentence could equally have been used by me a few months ago when commenting on the 2 in 12 starts stat for Scotland. Which just goes to show the futility of basing an opinion on stats alone. 670160[/snapback] Fair enough, but this all started because you yourself said that the critics of Miller should 'Hang their head in shame', which I reckoned to be way over the top. It's been an interesting discussion nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Actually I never said he hasn't improved. I think it's perfectly clear he's playing better than he was six months ago. What I said was he wasn't playing badly then, didn't deserve to be dropped (in contrast to what you said) and was still even then the best available (also in contrast to your own opinion).Your last sentence could equally have been used by me a few months ago when commenting on the 2 in 12 starts stat for Scotland. Which just goes to show the futility of basing an opinion on stats alone. 670160[/snapback] Well exactly, there are no stats to prove Miller was playing badly before other than his lack of goals for the national team, which may or may not have been his fault. The problem is you, perhaps unintentionally, have given the impression of saying "He's been good all along. You lot are only just realising it" which I and others dont believe to have been the case. It is of course merely opinion on all of his performances. You believe you are right, I believe you are wrong. Stats can give weight to either opinion, but its generally based on your view of a performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Sensible Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 I can't believe we have people arguing over if he was better 6 months ago than now. I suppose we should not be surprised at Captain Sensible mass-debating over past events, he is the master at living in the past. 670150[/snapback] Not suprised to find this disgusting man personally mentioning me in his posts. Next he'll be sending me more stalking e-mails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Sensible Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 No I wont, as I've explained countless times now, it's not JUST about scoring. But it was YOU who started by quoting goalscoring stats to back up your argument. Now that you realise there are other stats which contradict your argument you don't want them mentioned again! Had Miller played well in the games he wasn't scoring for Scotland, that would have been fair enough, but he wasn't scoring AND not playing well. Try and understand this. And its just your OPINION that he wasn't playing well. Try to understand THAT. Only because they were greedy and wanted more money for him, they were quite prepared to sell him. Any evidence for this? Sunderland tried to buy him as a panic measure. Hence why they bought that donkey, Andy Gray, instead. In your OPINION. What's being a man got to do with it?? 670157[/snapback] I don't know - I was merely paraphrasing you. Now admit you were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 And its just your OPINION that he wasn't playing well. Try to understand THAT. I think you'll find it wasn't just MY opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundermonkey Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Not suprised to find this disgusting man personally mentioning me in his posts. Next he'll be sending me more stalking e-mails. 670183[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Any evidence for this? From the Sunderland website..... It is reported that Sunderland are preparing to approach Wolves with an official bid for Kenny Miller, for the third attempt.Wolves have rejected two bids from the Black Cats already as the chairman demands for more money. Wolves chief Glenn Hoddle admits that he is keen to get the player's future sorted. Hoddle said: "Kenny's only got 12 months left on his contract but it would be wrong to let him go cheaply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted September 9, 2005 Author Share Posted September 9, 2005 Fair enough, but this all started because you yourself said that the critics of Miller should 'Hang their head in shame', which I reckoned to be way over the top. It's been an interesting discussion nonetheless. 670172[/snapback] True. At least we're arguing over something positive for a change! The "Hang their heads" comment perhaps was over the top. Never the less, I thought the criticism Miller got after those two games was way over the top, undeserved and I said so in print on here at the time. I felt entitled to a little "told you so" comment at the very least. Well exactly, there are no stats to prove Miller was playing badly before other than his lack of goals for the national team, which may or may not have been his fault. The problem is you, perhaps unintentionally, have given the impression of saying "He's been good all along. You lot are only just realising it" which I and others dont believe to have been the case. It is of course merely opinion on all of his performances. You believe you are right, I believe you are wrong. Stats can give weight to either opinion, but its generally based on your view of a performance. 670177[/snapback] Also all entirely true. However, I did quite intentionally give the impression he's been good all along because I actually believe it to be the case. The thing here is that there's a load of people claiming he went from bad to good, the Captain claiming he's gone from good to still good and me claiming he went from good to better. I never denied he wasn't playing better (though I maintain that also has much to do with the chnage in the team as a whole and in particular the midfield), merely that he wasn't playing badly in the first place and the criticism he received after those two games was over the top and unwarranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Sensible Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 I think you'll find it wasn't just MY opinion. 670190[/snapback] So you're now admitting that its is just OPINION and not FACT now and that you were wrong all along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Sensible Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Re your quote from the SUNDERLAND website (not the Wolves website) - what on earth does that prove????? The FACT is that Wolves turned down a bif of £1.2m for a player who can speak to other clubs in January for free - based on last season's performances. They did this because they didn't think they could replace a 20 goal a season striker easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Re your quote from the SUNDERLAND website (not the Wolves website) - what on earth does that prove?????The FACT is that Wolves turned down a bif of £1.2m for a player who can speak to other clubs in January for free - based on last season's performances. They did this because they didn't think they could replace a 20 goal a season striker easily. 670233[/snapback] Kenny Miller put himself on the transfer list last season, as he wanted away. Wolves wanted £2m for him, despite him being nowhere near worth that at the time. Ergo, the Sunderland deal died. It's worked out well for Wolves now, as he's trained harder under Glenn Hoddle, looks a sharper player (his words not mine), and now no longer wishes to leave. I'm a bit gutted to be honest, on this form, Sunderland could well have done with him. So you're now admitting that its is just OPINION and not FACT now and that you were wrong all along? No, because unlike your opinion, I have facts to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Sensible Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 No, because unlike your opinion, I have facts to back it up. 670256[/snapback] And those "facts" just happen to be other people's OPINIONS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Sensible Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Here's a quote from Glenn Hoddle made at the start of the season: "I'll be a very happy bunny if Kenny's still with us (at the start of the season). Let's face it, he scored 20 goals again last season and did very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLwankwankwank Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Just watched a Kenny Miller interview on football focus "I'd like to thank the guys on Pie and Bovril who not only stuck by me but who actually know what the f**k they're talking about. As for the rest of them, Especially StewartyMac, well they're just dicks". Well there we have it, Miller shooting dead straight again. Can't believe they broadcast that language before the watershed all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Just watched a Kenny Miller interview on football focus "I'd like to thank the guys on Pie and Bovril who not only stuck by me but who actually know what the f**k they're talking about. As for the rest of them, Especially StewartyMac, well they're just dicks". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLwankwankwank Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 What? It's true, I taped it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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