The European football level St. Mirren FC 2024/25 thread

[Buttocks Brown]

Am recalling Michael Stewart's co-commentary on Scotland v Israel a few weeks ago when he was getting torn into Steve Clarke..... things can change very quickly.

Jim and the players deserve a break from the fans. A bundle of them have had Covid: that's stressful and we're assuming it was mild for all of them but who knows? Since then a decent performance against Dundee Utd and dug in to win the League Cup group. Could be worse.

A good sign for me was the reaction of the players to the goal yesterday. There's spirit in that dressing room and some decent players. Hopefully the results will come.

 

[Stu]

3 hours ago, GAD said:

Worth remembering Lex constantly demanded Jack Ross be sacked, including the season we won the league.

He also loves Tommy Craig.

[FTOF]

4 hours ago, GAD said:

Worth remembering Lex constantly demanded Jack Ross be sacked, including the season we won the league.

Oran Kearney too.

There's an irony meter somewhere that's just exploded.

[glenburn bud]

There’s been massive disruption at the club due to Covid, we all get it that training sessions have been sparse with players and staff isolating. The big question for me is why are a very decent squad of players underperforming. The constant chopping and changing of the starting eleven, and the lack of leadership on the pitch is there for all to see. 

Flynn coming back will make a difference but we look like a poor championship side at the moment. The quality of football displayed at the moment is dire on the eye, and fans are quite entitled to ask questions.

Whats happened to Foley and McCarthy they are a pale shadow of the players they were last season. 

[monthelie']

12 hours ago, Arch Stanton said:

Dennis doesn't need coaching, he knows where the goal frame is. The service to him is next to non-existent.

As I said on B&WA Obika is averaging slightly more than a goal in 3 games despite the dreadful service he gets. If he was playing in a side with creative guys around him he would be much more prolific.

We all share the love for JG as a player and as a manager we all wanted it to work. But, yet again, it's a relegation battle. Yet again we are the lowest scorers in the league.

It's not working. IF Tommy Wright is available the club should, IMO, pay him what he wants for as long as he wants because I'm  fucking  sick of  fucking about in the bottom 2 of the league at best and yo-yoing the rest of the time.

 

Would agree with you about the forwards. We must create the least amount of chances in the league. Dennis had a decent scoring record down south, he won't have up here due to the way we play. Its laughable when our 'support' criticize the forwards.

[NorthBank]

I certainly would not want to see Goody go for now. We had a great display at Aberdeen, very good display against Utd and a good first half against the soapdodgers. All of those games demonstrate we can play good, competitive football. Problem is goal scoring and lack of consistency. Covid and injuries/fitness may account for consistency and once we get a settled team things should improve. However scoring goals from chances created has been a problem last season as well as this.

A glaring problem for me is the amount of bad technique from set pieces and crossing. The number of times we underhit and overhit corners is a cause for concern. Same with free kicks. Goody changed to a 3-4-2-1 formation to have more players around and in the box which has by and large improved our goals threat. However the likes of Tait is providing width and although he gets in loads of crosses most are just punts. He doesn't pick out a player, pass into the box or hit the goal line. Very predictable. And the guys supporting the striker rarely take a shot when they have an opportunity as they want to pass the responsibility on to someone else.

We have the defence sorted but we really need to practice set pieces and target practice.

 

 

[Spam_Valley]

3 hours ago, NorthBank said:

We had a great display at Aberdeen, very good display against Utd and a good first half against the soapdodgers. All of those games demonstrate we can play good, competitive football.

We had one shot on target against Aberdeen & zero against United.  That is not anything like good, competitive football.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Spam_Valley

[MH-RD]

17 hours ago, Coventry Saint said:

I was listening to the latest Misery Hunters podcast earlier on, and 2/3 of them were saying maybe we need an attacking coach. The third was saying Jim needs to go.

I'm somewhere between the two. Thing is, if we got someone to coach the strikers, that won't necessarily change the team's attitude. Something just seems to break down in the final third.

I don't want Jim out. I want him to be a success so much. He was one of my favourite ever Saints players (in a cult hero sort of way) and I desperately want him to make this work. But he just doesn't seem to be making it click. Bearing in mind this is, for me, a really quite good squad, it's tempting to wonder if a more experienced, more attacking manager would make them click.

Thanks mate, we are grateful for every single listen. Much appreciated.

The thing with Goodwin for me is that i'm not necessarily 'scunnered' on a personal level with him like i was with Craig, Rae,Murray or especially Stubbs. I love JG and really hoped he would do well with us but as each week goes by, its apparent to me that he just cannot instruct/coach a side on how to win games in the league (even the league cup performances have been abysmal). Plus his baffling starting XI's & awful in-game tactical changes is further proof he's out of his depth.  

On paper his recruitment has been excellent, this is the best Premier League/Premiership squad we've managed to cultivate for quite some time IMO it's just that i don't think JG or his coaching team have the ability to get the best out of them. We have a squad full of technically solid footballers and there is absolutely no reason that we should be playing route 1, centre back to striker football with what we have at our disposal.

This is why i want change and want it before the turn of the year. Negative i may be, label me a 'boo boy' if you'd like  but I believe we have a squad there that can play some really good, fast, 'on the deck' football and with a really solid back line i think we can cause some teams real damage this season if we had a manager in place that is able to coach and use them properly.

 

[NorthBank]

41 minutes ago, Spam_Valley said:

We had one shot on target against Aberdeen & zero against United.  That is not anything like good, competitive football.

Did you stop reading before the next sentence ... Problem is goal scoring and lack of consistency.

[CambieBud]

I have been labelled a happy clapper by some on here and BAWA. Even so, this squad on paper is the best in years, but JG appears to have no idea what
1. His best team is
2. His best system is and
3. Plan B if a goal is lost.

I suspect he needs a competent coach alongside him

[Spam_Valley]

5 minutes ago, NorthBank said:

Did you stop reading before the next sentence ... Problem is goal scoring and lack of consistency.

No, I didn’t. However, you can’t label us good & competitive if we can barely get the ball on target.

Our problem is that we’re aren’t good nor competitive. That’s why we’re near the foot of the table.

[Torfason]

When we won the league under Gus, we were ~6th highest scoring team in the league but we were solid at the back.

Jim has got us playing very similar football but as both he and Gus found out, Premiership players will still create chances and very quickly if you concede the game is gone because you just don't carry enough threat to score goals.

The St Mirren Nil title is alive and well and by the end of Gus's tenure I was hoping for relegation just to see us have a go at teams.

Jim is rightly being given more grace because of his popularity and positivity but the product is still poor.

Do I want him sacked tomorrow, no but if things don't improve then he will need to go. We have too much quality in the squad to accept underperforming coaches.

[andrewh]

We were abysmal to watch for long periods under Tommy. We could hardly muster a shot on goal, never mind on target. Horrendous. Yet he always pulled us out of our slump and on to a good run. What he achieved I doubt any of our smaller clubs will do for so long and so consistently. Somehow I doubt Hamilton is his next stop. St Mirren, possibly.

[Ralstonite]

20 hours ago, Lex said:

Can see that the knives are out for Jim among our fans, which surely means he’s not long for this parish.

In his first season in charge we had our third highest league position in 30+ years.

Second season we are 11th with 3 games in hand (five points from those games would see us back to 9th) on the teams above us and in the next round of the league cup. All this coupled with unprecedented off field COVID issues and repeatedly interrupted matches and training sessions.

Despite these unfortunate facts would i be the least bit surprised if he was sacked before Christmas?

No, absolutely not. We are St Mirren and we sack managers. I can’t remember how many managers we’ve had since 2014 but why not add another scapegoat to the list? Gordon loves a managerial fallout and I’m only surprised he hasn’t had a public spat with Jim already, it must be in the post.

Who’s next? Tommy Wright? If I was him (or another perspective candidate) I would take one look at this thread and other social media and be like, no, thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. Given our wage budget's the second lowest in the league (only Hamilton pay their players less), I don't think we have a right to expect anything more than eleventh. I do find his style of player to be very boring, though. I wish we were more attacking, and scored more goals.

[Coventry Saint]

3 hours ago, MH-RD said:

Thanks mate, we are grateful for every single listen. Much appreciated.

The thing with Goodwin for me is that i'm not necessarily 'scunnered' on a personal level with him like i was with Craig, Rae,Murray or especially Stubbs. I love JG and really hoped he would do well with us but as each week goes by, its apparent to me that he just cannot instruct/coach a side on how to win games in the league (even the league cup performances have been abysmal). Plus his baffling starting XI's & awful in-game tactical changes is further proof he's out of his depth.  

On paper his recruitment has been excellent, this is the best Premier League/Premiership squad we've managed to cultivate for quite some time IMO it's just that i don't think JG or his coaching team have the ability to get the best out of them. We have a squad full of technically solid footballers and there is absolutely no reason that we should be playing route 1, centre back to striker football with what we have at our disposal.

This is why i want change and want it before the turn of the year. Negative i may be, label me a 'boo boy' if you'd like  but I believe we have a squad there that can play some really good, fast, 'on the deck' football and with a really solid back line i think we can cause some teams real damage this season if we had a manager in place that is able to coach and use them properly.

 

You're welcome; I really enjoy it. I hope you stick with it as it's a great listen and I think you all come across well. Decent balance of opinions on there; I only hope you get some goals/wins to talk about soon.

I am inclined to agree about the selections and the tactics: yesterday was a prime example for me. Looked for all the world like a 4-2-3-1 based on the selection; turns out we we'd rammed McGrath in at wing back again. Utterly baffling.

[djchapsticks]

10 minutes ago, Ralstonite said:

I agree. Given our wage budget's the second lowest in the league (only Hamilton pay their players less), I don't think we have a right to expect anything more than eleventh. I do find his style of player to be very boring, though. I wish we were more attacking, and scored more goals.

I said it weeks ago, my biggest issue is that there's no intent or cohesive game plan in our attacking play. The tactic seems to be to hump the ball into space and hope we get a bounce.

If we were trying stuff that didn't quite work out, I'd be happy enough with that....look at the national team this week, now Scotland are never going to be a massive goalscoring side but it's as clear as the nose on your face what their attacking intent is and that they have a gameplan, they actually look cohesive going forward but lack that killer instinct.

Jack Ross and to lesser extent Oran Kearney's teams also had a game plan going forward...even at points last season under Goodwin, there was some semblance of him starting to get it. But this season, that seems to have deserted us completely.

I saw earlier on the page someone comparing it to under MacPherson but it's not even Gus tactics...Gus tactics were all about lumping it forward as well but the key difference is that we'd be trying to win second balls in dangerous areas. There's no pressing high in this side. Our attacking intent appears to be solely from set pieces or stumbling into the penalty box and maybe trying to get a shot away. No finesse, not actual vision or intent. It's an awful, awful watch.

I sincerely hope he can find that spark as I love the guy and I do believe he's a positive influence on the club and loves being here. It's of huge concern though that something is just not clicking and the team looks shackled every week, almost scared to be expressive.

And like everyone else, the 4 or 5 changes every match is completely bizarre. I get the covid situation hasn't helped at all but he should know his best team by now and needs to pin down his best starting XI and give them 4 or 5 games, only rotating for suspension or injury.

Edited November 15, 2020 by djchapsticks

[Ralstonite]

10 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

You're welcome; I really enjoy it. I hope you stick with it as it's a great listen and I think you all come across well. Decent balance of opinions on there; I only hope you get some goals/wins to talk about soon.

I am inclined to agree about the selections and the tactics: yesterday was a prime example for me. Looked for all the world like a 4-2-3-1 based on the selection; turns out we we'd rammed McGrath in at wing back again. Utterly baffling.

I'm out of the loop here. Is this a Saints podcast? If so, I'd be a regular listener.

[Coventry Saint]

24 minutes ago, Ralstonite said:

I'm out of the loop here. Is this a Saints podcast? If so, I'd be a regular listener.

It is! Misery Hunters it's called. Well worth a go.

@MH-RD just pop my commission in the post m8.

[MH-RD]

52 minutes ago, Ralstonite said:

I agree. Given our wage budget's the second lowest in the league (only Hamilton pay their players less), I don't think we have a right to expect anything more than eleventh. I do find his style of player to be very boring, though. I wish we were more attacking, and scored more goals.

That’s the thing though. We may be 11th on the wage budget list. However, with the squad we have there should be absolutely no acceptance of 11th place in the league. We have a very good squad for the Premiership and should be pushing for top 6 - or top 4 if you listen to Tony .

We’re seriously underachieving.

Edited November 15, 2020 by MH-RD

[MH-RD]

4 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

It is! Misery Hunters it's called. Well worth a go.

@MH-RD just pop my commission in the post m8.

That’s a pie and a bovril at this years Scottish Cup Final for you mate