MacDonald Jardine Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 1 minute ago, tamthebam said: I don't remember either set of fans caring much about Meadowbank Thistle fans' struggle against Bill Hunter. You tolerated that and your children got Almondvale! I did as it happens. I can't say I was in any way active but that was a travesty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zing. Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 27 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said: And you're sure of this? Yes, unless the SFA change the rules on ownership he won’t be able to have more than his current minority share. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 1 minute ago, Zing. said: Yes, unless the SFA change the rules on ownership he won’t be able to have more than his current minority share. He can't own more than 30%. He can have an agreement about how Hibs will conduct themselves in certain situations. Do you really think a simple minority share was worth £6m? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zing. Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 4 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said: He can't own more than 30%. He can have an agreement about how Hibs will conduct themselves in certain situations. Do you really think a simple minority share was worth £6m? We’ve appointed a manager and sporting director and neither were who Foley wanted. Said sporting director was quoted a couple of days ago saying we won’t take players from Foley’s group unless they are ready to make an immediate impact. Whats come out today points towards him having a voice but simply only having a vote like the rest of the board when it comes to decision making. He seems to think something has changed though so we’ll see what happens in the next few weeks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Just now, Zing. said: We’ve appointed a manager and sporting director and neither were who Foley wanted. Said sporting director was quoted a couple of days ago saying we won’t take players from Foley’s group unless they are ready to make an immediate impact. Whats come out today points towards him having a voice but simply only having a vote like the rest of the board when it comes to decision making. He seems to think something has changed though so we’ll see what happens in the next few weeks. We will. It's maybe me but I do find it hard to believe Foley has invested in the vague hope the majority might take his views on board. Either way it's popcorn time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Reese Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 1 hour ago, Zing. said: That’s all he’s signed up for unless the rules drastically change. Have wee Ian and Benji taken cash to save their failing business under false pretences, and then tried to dodge the piper? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Saints Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 (edited) Not sure if anyone has been paying attention to the EPL in recent years, but I’d say there’s probably a 0.1% chance that anyone punted on loan to Hibs will eventually be deemed worthy of playing semi-regularly in that league. I reckon Bournemouth would rather just splash 20-30m on someone better. No, it’s most likely that the best of these players will end up being sold overseas or to one of the lower divisions in England. Edited July 22 by The Real Saints 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefki Kuqi Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Fans from other clubs moaning about a guy who owns 25% of our club moaning about having a minority decision making capacity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 8 hours ago, Chefki Kuqi said: Fans from other clubs moaning about a guy who owns 25% of our club moaning about having a minority decision making capacity. I kind of get this reaction given you have hearts fans predicting the end of days for you and taking joy from it. Anyone who claims to know where is going is at it. But is there no part of hibs fans concerned about this? I find that really hard to believe. It’s naive to suggest a minority stake is going to stop this guy from throwing his weight around and pulling all levers possible for hibs to be run in a way he likes. He hasn’t made a strategic investment in hibs to sit back and hope kensell, malky and the lads can pull it off. Im sure he wants hibs to have success but ultimately his priority is Bournemouth, they are at the top of that pyramid and when he’s talking about styles of play etc he’s talking about doing it to suit bournemouths development plans. That ‘could’ all work out happily that hibs success brings Bournemouth success and everyone compliments each other happily to create success for the group, but are people really comfortable with this sentiment from yesterday? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 7 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: I kind of get this reaction given you have hearts fans predicting the end of days for you and taking joy from it. Anyone who claims to know where is going is at it. But is there no part of hibs fans concerned about this? I find that really hard to believe. It’s naive to suggest a minority stake is going to stop this guy from throwing his weight around and pulling all levers possible for hibs to be run in a way he likes. He hasn’t made a strategic investment in hibs to sit back and hope kensell, malky and the lads can pull it off. Im sure he wants hibs to have success but ultimately his priority is Bournemouth, they are at the top of that pyramid and when he’s talking about styles of play etc he’s talking about doing it to suit bournemouths development plans. That ‘could’ all work out happily that hibs success brings Bournemouth success and everyone compliments each other happily to create success for the group, but are people really comfortable with this sentiment from yesterday? Sensible post at last. Yes, I have my concerns but one thing I won't pay any heed to is low-level froth from axe-grinding Hearts fans who appear to have wanked themselves into a frenzy over the last 4 pages. I can see the Foley's group going head to head with the Gordons at some point over the direction of Hibs. Bill Foley is not a patient man and he won't put up with a season like last. Fans will agree that Ben Kensall's jaikit is very much on a shoogly peg and at present he is the heat shield for Ian Gordon from the fan's criticisms. He's also mightily overpaid, has delivered very little, and has been way too loose with his tongue at fan events. The irony of Malky Mackay being seen as the "good guy" here shouldn't be lost on anyone. I honestly thought the Gordon family would sell the club after Ron passed. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 The biggest issue with what Foley said is surely the comment on Lorient. I don't think their fans see it as going well and he seems happy enough that they've just been relegated cause they've adopted the structure he wanted. Which does go to what had been said about ultimately Bournemouth being all he really cares about 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Reese Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Just now, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said: The biggest issue with what Foley said is surely the comment on Lorient. I don't think their fans see it as going well and he seems happy enough that they've just been relegated cause they've adopted the structure he wanted. Which does go to what had been said about ultimately Bournemouth being all he really cares about Did the Lorient fans not dump a few tonnes of fish at the club’s door in protest? Maybe Hibs fans could do the same with empty ‘Bevvy’ bottles or something? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 10 hours ago, Chefki Kuqi said: Fans from other clubs moaning about a guy who owns 25% of our club moaning about having a minority decision making capacity. Us other fans are hardly moaning. We're loving it. That said, Hibs fans show grow a pair and tell Foley and the other rich tossers where to go. Is it your club or just another toy for some billionaire manboy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parttimesupporter Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 I'm puzzled by the numbers here. The Black Knights paid £6m for 25% of the shares. Surely there must be more than that to it? I'm struggling to see how anyone can value Hibs at £24m. I realise that the stadium will have a large balance sheet value but these value have always puzzled me. In terms of security for investment these numbers are way over the top, as the creditors of Rangers and Hearts found when the grounds were sold by the liquidators/administrators. If there is no more to it than that then £6m for 25% of the company and no real control seems like a lousy deal. Conversely you can argue that the Hibs' board played a blinder striking that deal! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 (edited) 3 hours ago, AndyM said: Bill Foley is not a patient man and he won't put up with a season like last. Why not? Genuinely, why not? He told us yesterday that Hibs' function in this is to produce players. If Hibs have two Bournemouth kids in the side every year and a good number of them go on to either play for Bournemouth or be sold on to EFL clubs for a few million a pop (possibly after a spell in France), aiding Bournemouth's FFP, then why would Foley be concerned if Hibs were finishing in the bottom six every season? They'd still be performing their function in his plan. It would be a strategic success. I think it's clear he'd rather the scenario above than see Hibs qualify for Europe every year but produce nothing of value to Bournemouth. Edited July 23 by VincentGuerin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 13 minutes ago, Parttimesupporter said: I'm puzzled by the numbers here. The Black Knights paid £6m for 25% of the shares. Surely there must be more than that to it? I'm struggling to see how anyone can value Hibs at £24m. I realise that the stadium will have a large balance sheet value but these value have always puzzled me. In terms of security for investment these numbers are way over the top, as the creditors of Rangers and Hearts found when the grounds were sold by the liquidators/administrators. If there is no more to it than that then £6m for 25% of the company and no real control seems like a lousy deal. Conversely you can argue that the Hibs' board played a blinder striking that deal! You're spot on. Foley might come across as many things but he's no mug. Unless there's more to it the whole thing makes no sense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 29 minutes ago, Parttimesupporter said: I'm puzzled by the numbers here. The Black Knights paid £6m for 25% of the shares. Surely there must be more than that to it? I'm struggling to see how anyone can value Hibs at £24m. I realise that the stadium will have a large balance sheet value but these value have always puzzled me. In terms of security for investment these numbers are way over the top, as the creditors of Rangers and Hearts found when the grounds were sold by the liquidators/administrators. If there is no more to it than that then £6m for 25% of the company and no real control seems like a lousy deal. Conversely you can argue that the Hibs' board played a blinder striking that deal! They won’t be valuing hibs at £24m as such. The devil will be in the detail here but I suspect a good chunk of the value they can extract is based on having a new vehicle for player development and what that does for their capacity to create sellable assets for Bournemouth. Im assuming hibs don’t pay dividends so it won’t be a case of checking hibs balance sheet, profits and saying we want 25% of that. It increases the number of players they can take on the books and put into their development program and likely increase the attraction for prospective players and sell them a clear development path which includes attractive loans to clubs like hibs instead of youth football. They will have modelling which places a value on it, how they build that I have no idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galajambo Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 36 minutes ago, Parttimesupporter said: I'm puzzled by the numbers here. The Black Knights paid £6m for 25% of the shares. Surely there must be more than that to it? I'm struggling to see how anyone can value Hibs at £24m. I realise that the stadium will have a large balance sheet value but these value have always puzzled me. In terms of security for investment these numbers are way over the top, as the creditors of Rangers and Hearts found when the grounds were sold by the liquidators/administrators. If there is no more to it than that then £6m for 25% of the company and no real control seems like a lousy deal. Conversely you can argue that the Hibs' board played a blinder striking that deal! Exactly mate, but you can't tell Hibs fans this because apparently they know better. I find it a little concerning (and funny) that the figure involved was £6M, exactly the figure that Ron Gordon bought the club for in 2019, he's done feck all with them apart from upgrade their hospitality suites (to a high standard I may add), which basically means that the Gordon family have their initial investment back in their pockets, and still own circa 60% of the club, things aren't adding up here and I reckon Gordon junior is saddled with a project he doesn't really want, but feels obligated to continue his fathers work (who came across as a good man I have to say, with good intentions). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Galajambo said: Exactly mate, but you can't tell Hibs fans this because apparently they know better. All supports are like this to an extent. A lot of our fans were the same with Vlad. Denial off the charts for a long time. The big questions haven't really been asked around this investment. For example, Hearts let Vlad in as we had no choice. Why were Hibs keen to take this on, given all it seems likely to involve? How bad are the finances at Hibs? What are the Gordons' intentions? And nobody has - from a Hibs point of view - seriously put the questions to him of what are you doing here, how will you benefit, and what will it mean day-to-day for Hibs? We all speculate all the time, but on balance it's hard to see how this looks like a good thing for Hibs. My view from the start has been that Hibs fans will look back on this with great regret, and I've seen nothing to change my mind. I think the day Ron Gordon turned up at Easter Road may, in the long-term, turn out to have been a very bad one for them, well-intentioned as he was. Edited July 23 by VincentGuerin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 21 minutes ago, Parttimesupporter said: I'm puzzled by the numbers here. The Black Knights paid £6m for 25% of the shares. Surely there must be more than that to it? I'm struggling to see how anyone can value Hibs at £24m. I realise that the stadium will have a large balance sheet value but these value have always puzzled me. In terms of security for investment these numbers are way over the top, as the creditors of Rangers and Hearts found when the grounds were sold by the liquidators/administrators. If there is no more to it than that then £6m for 25% of the company and no real control seems like a lousy deal. Conversely you can argue that the Hibs' board played a blinder striking that deal! If they were buying at market value Hibs would be worth considerably more than £24 m due to minority discounting. The net balance sheet at June 2023 wasn’t far off £24m but like you say that includes a spurious uplift to the value for the stadium Clearly they see more value in the deal than the current value of Hibs as a business/company. It looks like their investment was broadly matched by existing investors, presumably largely through capitalising the existing loan. Looks like another £2m or so of shares were issued in June. The SFA rule on dual control is pretty widely drawn so any sort of investment agreement or side letter type control could fall foul of it. That’s assuming the SFA is resourced/arsed to police that sort of arrangement and challenge it. The sort of “loan to own” shenanigans that you often have to watch out for with these characters should be off the table. It would only take a couple of players sold (by Bournemouth) for say £5m after loan periods to recoup the outlay. £6M isn’t a lot out of a £bn fund and some could be recoverable by buy back, which the Gordon’s might want to do if he gets annoying enough, so the exposure is probably less. I seriously doubt that Hibs’ success is a consideration at all for these guys but I can see how it could make sense as a win-win type of arrangement. I can imagine that someone who (presumably) has a massive ego would have faith in his powers to persuade an inexperienced board to do what he wants without majority control. Without control it’s difficult to see how Hibs interests get entirely subordinated to Bournemouths. The Hibs fan group shareholding should provide some sort of safeguard against back-door arrangements. The worst case scenario I can see is that Hibs get no good players and have off field disputes taking up management bandwidth and resource, while providing the rest of us with point and laugh material. I think the chances of this scenario playing out are relatively high. But I do wonder what Hibs have done with the cash. If they’re burning that for operating losses they’re probably fucked anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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