Junior football, what is the future?

[clickclick]

1 minute ago, jc1 said:

5 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Name the clubs that are saying that by moving to the EOS league then they are getting extra money.

Why name them??? It's what I've physically heard. Don't need to name them as there's more than a couple under this impression as it came from clubs moving that's why I believed there was extra cash for clubs going into the EoS league.

The reply I've had might point to that JC.  Grants for ground development and other aspects.

Still don't get it though.  Dunipace for example, have finished as the 2nd bottom side of the SJFA West, not a nice place to finish (I know, we were there last year), but they're now off to ply their trade in the 'top' leagues?  Personally, I'm finding it hard to see why clubs would want to move to what sounds like a weaker League setup.

[jc1]

Well, clubs can work towards a club license as EoS members, something they cannot do in the SJFA. This brings with it entry into the Scottish Cup preliminaries which comes with appearance money (low 4 figures). There are other benefits too but that's the most obvious one. Non-licensed league winners also get Scottish Cup entry, as do the winners of the South/East Shield (a play off vs a South of Scotland side for the winner of the Alex Jack Cup, entered by all EoS sides not licensed).

Cheers mate that was clear to make out. Again goes back to my opinion smaller junior clubs going is bewildering as there will be even less chance of progression for them in the EoS strange imo

[gaz5]

Allowing for the fact they knew the league was going to be split then they didnt know which teams they were going to be facing.

Not exactly, but enough to sell it to players though.

They knew how the league's were likely to be made up using the seeding system outlined at the meeting so could reasonably work it out.

We knew for example it would likely be either Hawick or LTHV, Preston or Leith, Tynie or Herriot Watt etc. And from the Juniors likely to be 2 from Bonnyrigg, Camelon, Haws and Mussy. 2 from Haddington, Blackburn, Tranent and Dalkeith etc. Etc.

Even allowing for changes to balance floodlights etc. it was perfectly feasible based on the information given that you could build a picture of what the sections might look like when done seeded like that.

To then change that for teams considered "lesser" so they wouldn't have even a chance of being in a league with the top teams at this late stage doesn't seem right.

Some of the players that have signed will have done so because they knew they were going to be in sections with at least some of these teams. What is being proposed here is that they end up in a league with none of them, to suit the late coming "big teams", potentially to those clubs detriment.

Just my opinion, but I think we have committed to an all teams Teir 6 for at least one transitional season and that's what it should be now, either 2 sections or 3.

If we follow the thought process that for the season after finishing positions next year determine league, that seems fair. It at least gives everyone a chance to earn their spots. Some of these "lesser" teams might surprise, they might not. At least no one can complain the season after as everyone ends up wherever they earn.

[drs]

 

Just now, clickclick said:

The reply I've had might point to that JC.  Grants for ground development and other aspects.

Still don't get it though.  Dunipace for example, have finished as the 2nd bottom side of the SJFA West, not a nice place to finish (I know, we were there last year), but they're now off to ply their trade in the 'top' leagues?  Personally, I'm finding it hard to see why clubs would want to move to what sounds like a weaker League setup.

With the amount of East clubs moving the standard is likely to be far higher in the EoS next season than it will be in the West Bottom division.

EoS also as noted allows for far more progression opportunities both on and off the pitch, its a no brainer in the long term.

[drs]

5 minutes ago, jc1 said:

9 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Well, clubs can work towards a club license as EoS members, something they cannot do in the SJFA. This brings with it entry into the Scottish Cup preliminaries which comes with appearance money (low 4 figures). There are other benefits too but that's the most obvious one. Non-licensed league winners also get Scottish Cup entry, as do the winners of the South/East Shield (a play off vs a South of Scotland side for the winner of the Alex Jack Cup, entered by all EoS sides not licensed).

Cheers mate that was clear to make out. Again goes back to my opinion smaller junior clubs going is bewildering as there will be even less chance of progression for them in the EoS strange imo

Junior leagues offer no opportunities for progression beyond Super League, EoS offers chance to get into the SPFL - its not bewildering to understand why clubs are looking to move. Yes a lot of clubs will never get anywhere near the LL never mind the SPFL but the opportunity for progression is now there for the likes of Dunbar and Blackburn that wasn't there previously.

In one year Kelty have gone from East Junior Champions to being in the LL and one division below the SPFL, if they had stayed put last year the best they could have hoped for is winning the East Juniors again.

Edited May 27, 2018 by drs

[Goalie Hamish]

The rats have left ...they will be welcomed with open arms 

Saved [emoji23]

[Jambo'ness]

10 minutes ago, jc1 said:

18 minutes ago, Jambo said:

Fair dos,
Again, personally speaking, I feel that the farce that is the leadership of the SJFA has caused a lot of this.  They have done nothing to honestly re-assure clubs.  All they have said have turned out to be, at best, half-truths.  When you have no trust in the leadership but can't realistically change it, then you are left with one alternative.  Get out!

I agree the SJFA have not acted as from my personal circumstances just now is we don't know what or where we are playing next season. My club and players have worked their arses off all season on and off the park to gain promotion. We have now done that instead of celebrating we don't know what's happening it's very frustrating

You are unlucky that this is the year of major change..  Last year Nitten were 'lucky' to be saved because Kelty left.  This year has still been a success for you.  The record books will always show that.  Major change was inevitable but the ostriches at the SJFA stuck their heads in the sand, probably hoping Kelty would crash and burn.

[cmontheloknow]

15 minutes ago, jc1 said:

19 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Well, clubs can work towards a club license as EoS members, something they cannot do in the SJFA. This brings with it entry into the Scottish Cup preliminaries which comes with appearance money (low 4 figures). There are other benefits too but that's the most obvious one. Non-licensed league winners also get Scottish Cup entry, as do the winners of the South/East Shield (a play off vs a South of Scotland side for the winner of the Alex Jack Cup, entered by all EoS sides not licensed).

Cheers mate that was clear to make out. Again goes back to my opinion smaller junior clubs going is bewildering as there will be even less chance of progression for them in the EoS strange imo

I suppose the bigger picture has to be considered for the smaller clubs...

Switching focus towards youth (if it's not already in place) - taking any existing U19 sides out of the SYFA set-up to go into the EoS/Lowland/SoS U20 set-up.  I know Fauldhouse have a boys club at U17 level in the West Lothian set-up..

http://www.wlayfc.org/index.php/under-17/u17-league-tables

The Lowland & EoS Development League is much higher profile in terms of its members, refs appointed by SFA etc...

http://slfl.co.uk/table/development-league/

though obviously will need to consider its set-up with the new clubs coming in, some of whom have links to youth sides already.

While the knock-on will be a weakening of the SYFA set-up, it does strengthen youth for these clubs and I'd see that as a benefit, putting these clubs much more to the centre of their footballing community - Junior clubs have a tendency to be islands and links with youth clubs are just that, they're not able to be part of the same club in terms of registering players (at Pollok we have a link to Pollok United Soccer Academy 19s and our existing U21s are affiliated too).

Junior sides are limited to signing 25 players at one time - the LL Development sides will also have a pool of youngsters to call on come season end  without getting bogged down in delayed transfers etc - no need to put out 7 or 8 trialists either! I know there's a provision to sign 20 youth players in the SJFA but not sure the ins and outs of that in terms of signing players beyond 31st March.

I've  not mentioned money once there but it is a benefit (to the smaller sides) of moving - I'd have thought it easier to recruit better players for the LL Development set-up than it would be to play in the local SYFA leagues. Better players at U20 will benefit the smaller sides. And who knows what the future brings after that?

For the bigger sides, Lowland League is the goal and that has added benefits such as entry into the big Senior cups - Irn Bru and League Cup depending on league position.

Edited May 27, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[Goalie Hamish]

Cmon Hamish, you’re better than this 

Fun tae play then at their ain game

[Goalie Hamish]

It's actually an option that's been mentioned but all the hard work been put in this season to reach our goal of super league this seems a no no to start there in the bottom. Personal opinion is too many jumping ship for the WRONG reasons. Also the silence from the SJFA ain't helping anyone we are in between a rock and a hard place just now imo

Whit are the wrong reasons then?

[gaz5]

The reply I've had might point to that JC.  Grants for ground development and other aspects.
Still don't get it though.  Dunipace for example, have finished as the 2nd bottom side of the SJFA West, not a nice place to finish (I know, we were there last year), but they're now off to ply their trade in the 'top' leagues?  Personally, I'm finding it hard to see why clubs would want to move to what sounds like a weaker League setup.

Taking your example, Dunipace may or may not find it tough next year. At this stage, it's guess work. But you are assuming they are moving under the same conditions that saw them finish in that position this year.

They are not.

They will be playing in a new ground, on a new surface, with a new management team and have already announced they have changed a third of their squad and will be adding a development team at under 20's next year (rather than running and under 20 team at times at first team level last year!).

You only need to look as far as Royal Albert to know that on field outlooks change in the non league on an almost seasonal basis.

That said, DRS is right, it's not about instant on park success, it's about going to the best place to grow the club for the long term.

[Bathgate_Exile]

11 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Well I havent seen any statement from any club leaving the juniors  thats that says they will get more money from just joining EOS league. 

Not seen an official statement from anyone either. I've spoke to a couple of committee men from club's moving at games this season, and like JC says, they state it's a financial decision. They expect more money handed to them and that's the only reason for going. Some even admitted it was a poorer league (at the time).

 

I spoke to some who ridiculed moving to Eos but that's exactly what their club is now doing. 

 

Personally I'm still undecided. I can't help but feel all the recent defectees (those that only decided to move in the last couple of days) have adopted a lemmings mentality.

[clickclick]

1 minute ago, gaz5 said:

Taking your example, Dunipace may or may not find it tough next year. At this stage, it's guess work. But you are assuming they are moving under the same conditions that saw them finish in that position this year.

They are not.

They will be playing in a new ground, on a new surface, with a new management team and have already announced they have changed a third of their squad and will be adding a development team at under 20's next year (rather than running and under 20 team at times at first team level last year!).

You only need to look as far as Royal Albert to know that on field outlooks change in the non league on an almost seasonal basis.

That said, DRS is right, it's not about instant on park success, it's about going to the best place to grow the club for the long term.

Yep, appreciate the work going on at Dunipace would expect their move probably had influenced the approval the works going on there.  Just think you'd want to be at the top of your game before making a change like this.  If your team isn't successful, fans wont watch, it could be a long time before any real improvements are visible, if at all other than the scenery.

[lithgierose]

3 minutes ago, Bathgate_Exile said:

Not seen an official statement from anyone either. I've spoke to a couple of committee men from club's moving at games this season, and like JC says, they state it's a financial decision. They expect more money handed to them and that's the only reason for going. Some even admitted it was a poorer league (at the time).

 

I spoke to some who ridiculed moving to Eos but that's exactly what their club is now doing. 

 

Personally I'm still undecided. I can't help but feel all the recent defectees (those that only decided to move in the last couple of days) have adopted a lemmings mentality.

Difference for us imo.is play against the likes of harthill,bathgate,whitburn etc to no crowds to talk about.or play against boness,bonnyrigg etc.who actually bring support with the.not saying all super league teams are that greatly supported.when we played jeanfield at linlithgow,they brought about 7 fans.

[gaz5]

Yep, appreciate the work going on at Dunipace would expect their move probably had influenced the approval the works going on there.  Just think you'd want to be at the top of your game before making a change like this.  If your team isn't successful, fans wont watch, it could be a long time before any real improvements are visible, if at all other than the scenery.

Could be a long time before First Team on field change is visible, could not. Time will tell.

But that applies to the bottom Teir in the West just as it does the EoS.

But the club can do a whole lot of other things off the field that we want to in the EoS that we can't do in the West (License, Under 20's etc.).

And it's a fresh start.

Overall, for the club in its entirety, not just looking at a first team in isolation (which is what most of those who don't understand the decision are doing) it's the best option for the club to grow for the long term, bottom to top.

[superbigal]

Now being told st Andrews voted against joining eos as they now know they will be in the superleague. Need an official statement.

Thought original source was good.

This one is a club secretary.

Just added that ALL sorts of phone calls are currently being made to all east clubs by east officials.

 

 

Hello Mr xxx

Are you staying or going [emoji16] [emoji16] [emoji16] [emoji16]

 

 

[superbigal]

Are there eleven teams above them that have officially announced they were leaving juniors? I can only see five from Super league and five from premier?

 

Maybe a decent educated guess

This rate they could be in the top 8 excluding Tayside so in the sooperdooper. [emoji6]

[Gimme]

It wouldn't come as a great surprise if St. Andrews didn't move, geographically it probably suits them to be in with the Perthshire and Tayside clubs.

[FairWeatherFan]

Just now, gogsy said:

Sooperdooper league allegedly going to be West 10 teams East 6 teams though

If they're being assured Superleague status, maybe it's with the formation of the Superdooper league the region has in mind. Clubs leave for the EoS and Superdooperleague it guarantees East Region Superleague status for St. Andrews.

[Stag Nation]

29 minutes ago, superbigal said:

Now being told st Andrews voted against joining eos as they now know they will be in the superleague.

Haven't they noticed that the "Superleague" is going to be considerably less "Super"?  Same size fish, smaller pond.

And as for the "SuperDooper" league, a phrase about polishing turds comes to mind.  It's not just the juniors:  renaming the 4th division "League 2" is a nonsense which fools no-one.