Junior football, what is the future?

[welshbairn]

19 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Please see this post...

 

The consequences of that would be level 6 consisting entirely of Shire teams and unproven Tayside arrivistes. Nairn St Ninian would feel a tad miffed, as would the entire Highland football set up. It's not going to happen. Only way is for them to start their own South league at level 7, but it appears they're above all that.

Edited May 27, 2018 by welshbairn

[Tutankhamen]

23 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

Short term pain, long term gain. Speculate to accumulate. Choose your chiche. It's a lot better than 'settle for nothing' which is the only avenue open to Junior clubs presently.

I'm sure the money men at Pollok will have been on the case for months. Same as the big guns in Ayrshire.

[cmontheloknow]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The consequences of that would be level 6 consisting entirely of Shire teams and unproven Tayside arrivistes. Nairn St Ninian would feel a tad miffed, as would the entire Highland football set up. It's not going to happen.

I don't understand where you're coming from on that - the places in the top tier would be allocated by football merit, not along a geographical bias. Let's say this started in 19-20 - that gives Nairn Saints a season to come in and finish top 8 in the North Superleague. If they finish 9th or 10th, they have not won their spot on merit. I really don't understand what the sticking point is here.

'unproven Tayside arrivists...?' in a merged set-up? Unproven sides like Junior Cup finalists Carnoustie and Lochee United, the latter double East Superleague winners...?

Edited May 27, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

The consequences of that would be level 6 consisting entirely of Shire teams and unproven Tayside arrivistes. Nairn St Ninian would feel a tad miffed, as would the entire Highland football set up. It's not going to happen.

For that to happen it would be 2019-20 at the earliest. Expecting Nairn St. Ninian to be in a relegation battle next year, or do you not think they could finish 8th out of 14.

[drs]

4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

More likely to be September, but I get the point.

It's far better for them to stay in the Juniors get knocked out by October in a horrible tie that costs money. All the rooting around for loose change will keep them active in the winter months, rather than waiting around for the SFA's cheque to clear.

And at least you'll know your getting knocked out in September in July, unlike the Juniors who'll tell you 5 days beforehand.

[cmontheloknow]

3 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

I'm sure the money men at Pollok will have been on the case for months. Same as the big guns in Ayrshire.

Unless they have the power of clairvoyance I'd have said that's unlikely. The East Region didn't look close to toppling until relatively recently.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, cmontheloknow said:

I don't understand where you're coming from on that - the places in the top tier would be allocated by football merit, not along a geographical bias. Let's say this started in 19-20 - that gives Nairn Saints a season to come in and finish top 8 in the North Superleague. If they finish 9th or 10th, they have not won their spot on merit. I really don't understand what the sticking point is here.

'unproven Tayside arrivists...?' in a merged set-up? Unproven sides like Junior Cup finalists Carnoustie and Lochee United, the latter double East Superleague winners...?

As far as i'm aware next year the North Region are still intending to go to 3 region wide leagues. They don't seem to worried about a balanced Highland - Shire representation in their top 2 tiers.

[never been to scotland]

32 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

If the LL is going to have EoS, WoS and SoS directly beneath it then three tier 6 feeders for the HL seems reasonable enough. Pyramids are supposed to be about keeping things local at the lower tiers not bankrupting clubs with exhorbitant bus hires to play in front of a crofter called Calum and a couple of sheep.

You could even split the North Juniors into 2 leagues of roughly 16 along the Northern Coast and Eastern Coast. Then have 4 league winners (or 4 highest licensed clubs) playing off for 2 promo spots.

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

I don't understand where you're coming from on that - the places in the top tier would be allocated by football merit, not along a geographical bias. Let's say this started in 19-20 - that gives Nairn Saints a season to come in and finish top 8 in the North Superleague. If they finish 9th or 10th, they have not won their spot on merit. I really don't understand what the sticking point is here.

 

2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

For that to happen it would be 2019-20 at the earliest. Expecting Nairn St. Ninian to be in a relegation battle next year, or do you not think they could finish 8th out of 14.

As far as I know St Ninian have never played any Tayside juniors, so how could they be replaced by a Tayside team "on merit"?

[cmontheloknow]

1 minute ago, never been to scotland said:

You could even split the North Juniors into 2 leagues of roughly 16 along the Northern Coast and Eastern Coast. Then have 4 league winners (or 4 highest licensed clubs) playing off for 2 promo spots.

They've kind of had that this year below the North Super Premier but have ditched it for next season as FWF says.

[cmontheloknow]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

 

As far as I know St Ninian have never played any Tayside juniors, so how could they be replaced by a Tayside team "on merit"?

You're trolling now - IN A COMBINED NEW SET UP that takes the top 8 from each to make a NEW LEAGUE. Remaining teams form REGIONAL FEEDERS. 

[welshbairn]

Just now, gogsy said:

I think the point everybody except yourself can see is they arent being replaced by anyone?

Everyone else seems to see the North through Southern eyes. It's not going to happen anyway. Nobody wants it.

[welshbairn]

8 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

You're trolling now - IN A COMBINED NEW SET UP that takes the top 8 from each to make a NEW LEAGUE. Remaining teams form REGIONAL FEEDERS. 

I understand the theory, but football and life aren't played on a neat chart. Highland football and loyalties are different from the south, Tayside have no connection with it and they don't as far as I know even want it. It's difficult enough to keep Highland football as a thing with the North East dominating in money and population, but shipping in a load of Tayside teams into a single level 6 league would kill it off. It's not going to happen.

Edited May 27, 2018 by welshbairn

[never been to scotland]

10 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

They've kind of had that this year below the North Super Premier but have ditched it for next season as FWF says.

What are they going for next season?

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

In the EoS forum it's been raised as a concern that they might move the line South to take in the more traditional Tayside clubs from that area. Think it was a Jeanfield fan that brought up as it obviously affects them greatly in what they do. Not sure how much truth there is in it.

The only clubs affected by moving the line from the current position to the Earn would be, I think, Jeanfield and Kinnoull. I think Luncarty are already north of the line but it must be very close.

Tbh I think there ought to be a bit of flexibility, at least at the start, with clubs from Angus, Dundee and maybe Perth/ old Perthshire being able to choose either side. 

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, GordonS said:

The only clubs affected by moving the line from the current position to the Earn would be, I think, Jeanfield and Kinnoull. I think Luncarty are already north of the line but it must be very close.

Tbh I think there ought to be a bit of flexibility, at least at the start, with clubs from Angus, Dundee and maybe Perth/ old Perthshire being able to choose either side. 

My understanding is that Luncarty just scrape into the Highland area. But if they ever moved to a ground in the south of Luncarty they could slip into the Lowland area.

EDIT: Looking at it Tayport, Scone would be drawn into the Highland area if the Boundary is moved south. Newburgh could then become a bit like Luncarty as the line would fall very fine between the two areas for them.

Edited May 27, 2018 by FairWeatherFan

[Dead]

50 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

I believe it was yourself who got personal - the only line I'm going with is the one that says the Highland League catchment begins at 56.4513 decimal degrees, the northern shore of the Tay at Dundee Airport. Until that is altered, the Dundee clubs are not going to find a home with their old friends from Fife.

Personally I have never understood why the dividing line or boundary has to be a horizontal straight line. Curves work just as well , slightly tongue in cheek but if a team is marginally outside an obvious best fit then we should be helping them instead of just following the "party line"

[GordonS]

17 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

EDIT: Looking at it Tayport, Scone would be drawn into the Highland area if the Boundary is moved south. Newburgh could then become a bit like Luncarty as the line would fall very fine between the two areas for them.

Ah, I thought reference to the River Earn meant a line following the Tay and the Earn, rather than a straight line. Seems weird to me to use a straight line rather than administrative boundaries, as we use for every other purpose.

[FairWeatherFan]

12 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I understand the theory, but football and life aren't played on a neat chart. Highland football and loyalties are different from the south, Tayside have no connection with it and they don't as far as I know even want it. It's difficult enough to keep Highland football as a thing with the North East dominating in money and population, but shipping in a load of Tayside teams into a single level 6 league would kill it off. It's not going to happen.

Just out of curiosity how much is the difficulty over maintaining football in the Highlands an issue of football in general, or is it a struggle on the junior level as there are already a senior team certain towns?

Senior League/Junior League

Nairn County/Nairn St. Ninian, Forres Mechanics/Forres Thistle, Buckie Thistle/Buckie Rovers, Clachnacuddin/Inverness City, Elgin City/New Elgin, Fraserburgh/Fraserburgh United off the top of my head. I'd say the fact that these towns have been able to support 2 or more teams over the years shows a passion for the game in the area, but if they were all under the same umbrella the club that's perceived as being lower might struggle going forward. Which is why maintaining the junior/senior distinction might be of overall benefit for everyone.

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Ah, I thought reference to the River Earn meant a line following the Tay and the Earn, rather than a straight line. Seems weird to me to use a straight line rather than administrative boundaries, as we use for every other purpose.

I think its something that should be discussed. At the time the line of latitude was decided upon no one was really effected by it other than Angus SPFL clubs potentially being relegated into the Highland League. I'm just assuming that they'd approach any boundary change in the same set way with a line of latitude. Now clubs are directly impacted by it they should raise their concerns.