glensmad Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: Why would you need to restructure the leagues? If a team from the West Premier is promoted to the Lowland League, one should drop into it (the West Premier). I accept that sometimes it will be an East team that finishes bottom of the Lowland League but that should just mean more promotion from lower levels of west (if you want the top league to have even numbers and are less bothered about bottom tier being uneven, that is). But that's unlikely to happen so much that you lost a net of eight teams! Absolutely agree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 The "eight clubs" would be lost to bring the LL West up to its initial complement of 16 clubs. There are only 6 clubs in the LL at the moment that fall within the catchments of the west region juniors and SoS and even then that's only if BSC wind up at Lesser Hampden by 2021-22. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 In fairness this lad "sweep" seems like he is a financial whizzkid. I'd imagine he has a good grasp of the situation and all possible permutations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinderbrokeyourhearts Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/top-football-official-admits-making-21299575.amp?__twitter_impression=true 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, LongTimeLurker said: The "eight clubs" would be lost to bring the LL West up to its initial complement of 16 clubs. There are only 6 clubs in the LL at the moment that fall within the catchments of the west region juniors and SoS and even then that's only if BSC wind up at Lesser Hampden by 2021-22. But no-one has even said there will ever definitely be an LL West? It's a proposal that might come in one day. And in the interim this "loss" could be avoided by going as a bloc. Then teams relegated from the LL who belong in the west (by geography) at least, would get relegated into the West Prem at tier 6. I think you have to take it one step at a time. If an LL West follows on from the west teams joining the pyramid and the LL as a whole growing very strong, then so be that. But that's not happened yet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeek Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) Can sense @glensmad is on the verge of having a heads gone. I am and i'm only reading it Sweep - if the west comes on board at tier 6 as everyone will agree is the sensible option, 2 things will change. 1. The winner of the top West league will have the chance (perhaps guaranteed, that's tba) to be promoted, better themselves if you will, which as you already pointed out, you're in favour of. 2. The name of the league, and even that isn't necessary. There's no reason to bin off any sectional cup (haven't people wanted rid of this for ages anyway, or was it a different cup). It could even be the Alex jack or whatever it's called, of the west. But these options cant be put forward from outside the room My personal opinion is, the lack of progression, will only frustrate and push the more forward thinking and progressive clubs to investigate a breakaway. A team like Gartcairn for instance would probably be keen, they would immediately jump above the traditional big junior teams. If that comes into play, those same big teams will realise they aren't required for the pyramid and have no real leverage, they could soon find themselves scrambling to get in at tier 7. In which case be under no illusion, they wont give a toss about propping up little teams. Kelty moved and were seen as 'traitors to the grade' and even 'not a real junior team anyway'. The following year the big teams in the east were applying left right and Chelsea, as they could see what they'd be left with. Playing in a much degraded league, with smaller attendances and moving over the following year would see them 2 leagues below teams they'd previously been above. I imagine a lot of the east juniors now understandably feel stuck between a rock and a hard place - Their own doing of course. Apologies for the ramble, but it's kinda the point of PnB :-/ Edited January 17, 2020 by Jeek 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz5 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 The "eight clubs" would be lost to bring the LL West up to its initial complement of 16 clubs. There are only 6 clubs in the LL at the moment that fall within the catchments of the west region juniors and SoS and even then that's only if BSC wind up at Lesser Hampden by 2021-22.You are assuming that all 8 required teams would come from the juniors, that may very well not be the case, particularly if there are other already licensed West based teams who apply.If the SoS is considered under LL West, with the carrot of potential games against the likes of Talbot and Cumnock, you may very well see applications from teams like Threave in the SoS and Glasgow Uni, to give but two examples. There will be others.If a requirement of the league is a license, these teams would be leading candidates over any who don't have one in WRSJFA.The assumption that the West Juniors trump everyone is part of the problem here.No one is suggesting that there are not some very big clubs in there who would do very well in the LL, but there's a general level of dismissive thinking towards everyone else who may well apply and have legitimate claim to a spot in LL West.As has been said, the best way to get the top West junior sides in LL West if we get there is to join at Tier 6 first, get licenced then be ready for applying when the split happens.And with so much strength beneath, the LL and HL can then negotiate for automatic promotion rather than a playoff.That they have backed an undeliverable position is as depressing as it is predictable. I feel for the clubs who actually do want to make progress and are seemingly being held back. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Jeek said: Can sense @glensmad is on the verge of having a heads gone. I am and i'm only reading it Sweep - if the west comes on board at tier 6 as everyone will agree is the sensible option, 2 things will change. 1. The winner of the top West league will have the chance (perhaps guaranteed, that's tba) to be promoted, better themselves if you will, which as you already pointed out, you're in favour of. 2. The name of the league, and even that isn't necessary. There's no reason to bin off any sectional cup (haven't people wanted rid of this for ages anyway, or was it a different cup). It could even be the Alex jack or whatever it's called, of the west. But these options cant be put forward from outside the room... Sweep is a couple of steps ahead of a lot of people in this thread. The LL has 16 clubs. If there is an LL East and LL West there will be 16 extra clubs playing at tier 5 in the LL catchment area. 10 of those are most likely to come from the west superleague and 6 from the EoS premier based on where LL clubs are located right now. If up to 10 clubs leave the west premier, the current format of the west region juniors will have to be changed significantly from 16-16-16-16? as it is at the moment. If as is likely Cumnock, Talbot and possibly Glenafton leave for the LL West at that point then Lugar will have far less lucrative sectional league cup games because LL West clubs are unlikely to be involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Sweep is a couple of steps ahead of a lot of people in this thread. The LL has 16 clubs. If there is an LL East and LL West there will be 16 extra clubs playing at tier 5 in the LL catchment area. 10 of those are most likely to come from the west superleague and 6 from the EoS premier based on where LL clubs are located right now. If up to 10 clubs leave the west premier, the current format of the west region juniors will have to be changed significantly from 16-16-16-16? as it is at the moment. If as is likely Cumnock, Talbot and possibly Glenafton leave for the LL West at that point then Lugar will have far less lucrative sectional league cup games because LL West clubs are unlikely to be involved. If. Step two definitely won't happen before they take step one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, LongTimeLurker said: Sweep is a couple of steps ahead of a lot of people in this thread. The LL has 16 clubs. If there is an LL East and LL West there will be 16 extra clubs playing at tier 5 in the LL catchment area. 10 of those are most likely to come from the west superleague and 6 from the EoS premier based on where LL clubs are located right now. If up to 10 clubs leave the west premier, the current format of the west region juniors will have to be changed significantly from 16-16-16-16? as it is at the moment. If as is likely Cumnock, Talbot and possibly Glenafton leave for the LL West at that point then Lugar will have far less lucrative sectional league cup games because LL West clubs are unlikely to be involved. No they won't, as they would need to be licenced to be in the tier 5 LL West for starters. None of these clubs are currently licenced, neither can they have an application considered without being part of the pyramid. So the suggestion that they would walk straight into tier 5 to make up a LL West in the summer of 2021 is simply against the rules. I do get your point above, though, and the graphic given for Option Z is misleading as it shows "12/14/16" teams in each of the LL West and LL East, but also with the 16/16/16/15 split in the West Region juniors below that. It can't be both. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeek Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Eddie Hitler said: If. Step two definitely won't happen before they take step one. This 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peters Wyngarde Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Sweep is a couple of steps ahead of a lot of people in this thread. The LL has 16 clubs. If there is an LL East and LL West there will be 16 extra clubs playing at tier 5 in the LL catchment area. 10 of those are most likely to come from the west superleague and 6 from the EoS premier based on where LL clubs are located right now As has been pointed out - that's clearly nonsense and just wishful thinking from the Ra Jooners crowd. Too many people playing pretend around league structures that will never happen with the current SJFA management in place. Clubs need to take the lead now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, glensmad said: No they won't, as they would need to be licenced to be in the tier 5 LL West for starters... That's why it's slated for 2021-22 rather than 2020-21. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Just now, Peters Wyngarde said: As has been pointed out - that's clearly nonsense and just wishful thinking from the Ra Jooners crowd... This was an option that was presented to the LL, EoS, SoS and SJFA by the SFA board and isn't something that's just been dreamed up by "Ra Jooners" on a whim. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesel1994 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) Is my understanding of this wrong - under Option W - only one Premiership club would leave for the Lowland League - IF the League winner was Licenced. Under Option Z - eight clubs WILL leave the West Region (not necessarily from the Premiership) to make up the expanded Lowland League. EDIT : Corrected the Option X to Z. Edited January 17, 2020 by theesel1994 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 The Lowland League clubs currently take part in some East of Scotland League cup competitions, so I don't see any reason why the likes of Auchinleck or Cumnock couldn't take part in West Region cup competitions even if they did get to Tier 5. Maybe not all of them, but certainly some. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: That's why it's slated for 2021-22 rather than 2020-21. Yes, but they still can't get a licence for starting in 2021 as their application wouldn't be considered till they are actually part of the pyramid. Them's the rules. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 The SFA board make up the rules on that and have changed them on a whim (e.g. floodlights last season) at short notice in the past. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesel1994 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 The way the Options were worded, the Management Committee's preferred Option Z was highlighted as having the approval of the East Region, SPFL and LL. They do not say if Option W had the approval of SPFL or LL. Obviously the East Region are against it. The East Region are not on the same level anymore as the West Region. They have already lost all their top clubs to Senior Football. The way the West Region is going, it will also lose its top clubs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peters Wyngarde Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, craigkillie said: The Lowland League clubs currently take part in some East of Scotland League cup competitions, so I don't see any reason why the likes of Auchinleck or Cumnock couldn't take part in West Region cup competitions even if they did get to Tier 5. Maybe not all of them, but certainly some. Stop bringing common sense in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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