Junior football, what is the future?

[Guest]

Agreed.

Also expect that individual committee members will now have the time to at least set out plans and draw up lists of jobs etc that would help their clubs meet the various requirements.

Every current junior ground would meet eos criteria. There isnt a west junior ground I've played at that isnt the very same as the eosfl grounds I've visited. Even the grounds which are based at astro parks.(leith fc is an example from the eosfl)

The only time 'criteria' has to be met is when applying for an sfa licence, which is not required to play at tier 6. Coincidentally tier 6 is the level that the wosfl will operate.

In essence there is little if anything clubs need to do bar apply to the league.

[cmontheloknow]

16 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

Every current junior ground would meet eos criteria. There isnt a west junior ground I've played at that isnt the very same as the eosfl grounds I've visited. Even the grounds which are based at astro parks.(leith fc is an example from the eosfl)

The only time 'criteria' has to be met is when applying for an sfa licence, which is not required to play at tier 6. Coincidentally tier 6 is the level that the wosfl will operate.

In essence there is little if anything clubs need to do bar apply to the league.

And they don't even have to lose the name 'Juniors' either - see Tranent, Camelon and Sauchie for example. I think I am right in saying they all kept it in their name?

[AsimButtHitsASix]

4 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

And they don't even have to lose the name 'Juniors' either - see Tranent, Camelon and Sauchie for example. I think I am right in saying they all kept it in their name?

I believe only Glenrothes dropped the Juniors from their name.

Camelon mentioned in their statement about joining in the EoSFL that it was discussed but decided if it's good enough for Boca it's good enough for them.

[cmontheloknow]

4 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

I believe only Glenrothes dropped the Juniors from their name.

Camelon mentioned in their statement about joining in the EoSFL that it was discussed but decided if it's good enough for Boca it's good enough for them.

Dunipace too I think.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Just now, cmontheloknow said:

Dunipace too I think.

Ah right ye are. I never even realised they had 'Juniors' in the title to begin with

[glensmad]

Every current junior ground would meet eos criteria. There isnt a west junior ground I've played at that isnt the very same as the eosfl grounds I've visited. Even the grounds which are based at astro parks.(leith fc is an example from the eosfl)

The only time 'criteria' has to be met is when applying for an sfa licence, which is not required to play at tier 6. Coincidentally tier 6 is the level that the wosfl will operate.

In essence there is little if anything clubs need to do bar apply to the league.

That's not quite 100% right, there are criteria which were issued to all of the clubs who expressed an interest, and they are also on the EoSFL website. However, just about every junior club will currently meet 95% of the criteria already, most will already meet 100%. For those who need to do a small amount of work, their applications would be accepted provided they agree to meeting the non-conformances within an agreed "period of grace" (known as derogation). This was all made crystal clear at last Thursday's meeting.

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, glensmad said:

1 hour ago, G4Mac said:

Every current junior ground would meet eos criteria. There isnt a west junior ground I've played at that isnt the very same as the eosfl grounds I've visited. Even the grounds which are based at astro parks.(leith fc is an example from the eosfl)

The only time 'criteria' has to be met is when applying for an sfa licence, which is not required to play at tier 6. Coincidentally tier 6 is the level that the wosfl will operate.

In essence there is little if anything clubs need to do bar apply to the league.

That's not quite 100% right, there are criteria which were issued to all of the clubs who expressed an interest, and they are also on the EoSFL website. However, just about every junior club will currently meet 95% of the criteria already, most will already meet 100%. For those who need to do a small amount of work, their applications would be accepted provided they agree to meeting the non-conformances within an agreed "period of grace" (known as derogation). This was all made crystal clear at last Thursday's meeting.

Following the meeting was there any sort of written follow up provided, like a FAQ?

[Guest]

That's not quite 100% right, there are criteria which were issued to all of the clubs who expressed an interest, and they are also on the EoSFL website. However, just about every junior club will currently meet 95% of the criteria already, most will already meet 100%. For those who need to do a small amount of work, their applications would be accepted provided they agree to meeting the non-conformances within an agreed "period of grace" (known as derogation). This was all made crystal clear at last Thursday's meeting.

From the grounds I've visited, like peebles (open ground, not enclosed) to leith (astro with no real ground to speak of) I can assure you from 1st hand experience there is absolutely no way any junior club from the west wouldnt get in. Having played west juniors for the best part of 10 years, at pretty much every ground, there isnt one that stands out as needing anything done to meet any criteria.

Clubs shouldnt be put off by anything stated at any meeting. Apply and take it from there. My point was there is no work required right now to achieve anything. Ground wise anyway.

[Greenock]

I fully agree. 
My concern is that the WRJFA will incorrectly state that all the West juniors now agree to join the senior WoSL on "all in" basis, in a further attempt at muddying the waters, to delay (prevent ?) its creation, as an independent league within the pyramid .   Where does the SFA stand, in relation to this ? 

Where does the SFA stand ? Anyone know ?

[glensmad]

20+ applications in so far...

Very interesting. More than I expected prior to the PWG outcome.

[glensmad]

Following the meeting was there any sort of written follow up provided, like a FAQ?

No, but there were no limits put on the questions that were asked, and most club reps who were doing their job correctly were taking detailed notes.

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, glensmad said:

20 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Following the meeting was there any sort of written follow up provided, like a FAQ?

No, but there were no limits put on the questions that were asked, and most club reps who were doing their job correctly were taking detailed notes.

It would of been good if they had. Especially as we've seen the misunderstanding over the £500 and it would be something to provide any additional clubs that may have looked to apply since the meeting took place.

[glensmad]

It would of been good if they had. Especially as we've seen the misunderstanding over the £500 and it would be something to provide any additional clubs that may have looked to apply since the meeting took place.

Yes, that's a fair point. Any club who may be interested now but weren't at the meeting are welcome to contact me, but their best point of contact is George Fraser himself. He is a very open and approachable man.

By the way, the WRSJFA haven't yet provide any minutes of their "extra General Meeting" two days earlier either. You would have expected that to be standard procedure expected by the member clubs. Whereas the WoSFL is not yet an official organisation and has no official members yet.

[Countryman]

As someone south of the border, it is amazing to me how much of a mess Scottish Football is, here are my thoughts for what little they are worth. For me it comes down to a weak FA. If the Scottish FA cared it could be sorted out relitively quickly but as they don't you have the current farce.

 

How could the Scottish FA force the issue, for me by a carrot and stick approach.

To me the Scottish FA should simply say state that you these benefits for these ground conditions to be in the pyramind with automatic promotion and relegation which will go from tier 1 to tier 8 (8 is just an example); Being in pyramid means more grants, more big cups etc. Initialy they could give clubs 5 years to comply to staggered ground requirements for each level. Outside the Pyramid = less grants, no big cups, and the top leagues of all organisations outside the pyramid being step 9.  The difference between the two requirements making the choice stark and obvious for clubs who could then choose as per their ability to sustain a level of football and their aspirations. Clubs outside the pyramid would in future have to apply to join Pyramid and if they met criteria could replace bottom of step 8 clubs, opportunity to progress as circumstances change.

 

If the Scottish FA did this then I believe that all the best players would be inside the Pyramid very soon, and level 9 outside the pyramid would be of a poorer quality. All the Scottish FA has to do is to say from the beginning of season 20/21 or 21/22 this is what will happen, with these criteria. If clubs choose not to join Pyramid fine, but they will finacially be more amateur; The Scottish FA should abolish the amateur / professional distinction. If the Scottish FA did this it would to me get over a lot of the petty politics,.

 

Having read this thread I don't expect any of it to happen.

 

 

[Guest]

As someone south of the border, it is amazing to me how much of a mess Scottish Football is, here are my thoughts for what little they are worth. For me it comes down to a weak FA. If the Scottish FA cared it could be sorted out relitively quickly but as they don't you have the current farce.
 
How could the Scottish FA force the issue, for me by a carrot and stick approach.
To me the Scottish FA should simply say state that you these benefits for these ground conditions to be in the pyramind with automatic promotion and relegation which will go from tier 1 to tier 8 (8 is just an example); Being in pyramid means more grants, more big cups etc. Initialy they could give clubs 5 years to comply to staggered ground requirements for each level. Outside the Pyramid = less grants, no big cups, and the top leagues of all organisations outside the pyramid being step 9.  The difference between the two requirements making the choice stark and obvious for clubs who could then choose as per their ability to sustain a level of football and their aspirations. Clubs outside the pyramid would in future have to apply to join Pyramid and if they met criteria could replace bottom of step 8 clubs, opportunity to progress as circumstances change.
 
If the Scottish FA did this then I believe that all the best players would be inside the Pyramid very soon, and level 9 outside the pyramid would be of a poorer quality. All the Scottish FA has to do is to say from the beginning of season 20/21 or 21/22 this is what will happen, with these criteria. If clubs choose not to join Pyramid fine, but they will finacially be more amateur; The Scottish FA should abolish the amateur / professional distinction. If the Scottish FA did this it would to me get over a lot of the petty politics,.
 
Having read this thread I don't expect any of it to happen.
 
 

The sfa dont control any of the leagues, the spfl run tier 1 to 4. The LL and HL run tier 5 and the LL eos and sos run tier 6 and below, for clubs under the tay boundary line.

The sfa administer discipline and rules. They dont, rightly so, have the capacity to tell a league to do anything or steamroller anything in.

Which was made clear around a year ago with a 'done deal approach'. Scottish football isnt broken, it is very much alive and can have a bright future. But only if the meddling hands if those out to keep their own jobs remain out of the picture. [emoji6]

[FairWeatherFan]

22 minutes ago, Countryman said:

As someone south of the border, it is amazing to me how much of a mess Scottish Football is, here are my thoughts for what little they are worth. For me it comes down to a weak FA. If the Scottish FA cared it could be sorted out relitively quickly but as they don't you have the current farce.

 

How could the Scottish FA force the issue, for me by a carrot and stick approach.

To me the Scottish FA should simply say state that you these benefits for these ground conditions to be in the pyramind with automatic promotion and relegation which will go from tier 1 to tier 8 (8 is just an example); Being in pyramid means more grants, more big cups etc. Initialy they could give clubs 5 years to comply to staggered ground requirements for each level. Outside the Pyramid = less grants, no big cups, and the top leagues of all organisations outside the pyramid being step 9.  The difference between the two requirements making the choice stark and obvious for clubs who could then choose as per their ability to sustain a level of football and their aspirations. Clubs outside the pyramid would in future have to apply to join Pyramid and if they met criteria could replace bottom of step 8 clubs, opportunity to progress as circumstances change.

 

If the Scottish FA did this then I believe that all the best players would be inside the Pyramid very soon, and level 9 outside the pyramid would be of a poorer quality. All the Scottish FA has to do is to say from the beginning of season 20/21 or 21/22 this is what will happen, with these criteria. If clubs choose not to join Pyramid fine, but they will finacially be more amateur; The Scottish FA should abolish the amateur / professional distinction. If the Scottish FA did this it would to me get over a lot of the petty politics,.

 

Having read this thread I don't expect any of it to happen.

 

 

This already happens to an extent once they made licencing only accessible to those inside the pyramid. This sees increased grants access, guaranteed entry into the Scottish Cup and a dividend/payout from the SFA as you're now a member.

[AlanCamelonfan]

2 hours ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

I believe only Glenrothes dropped the Juniors from their name.

Camelon mentioned in their statement about joining in the EoSFL that it was discussed but decided if it's good enough for Boca it's good enough for them.

Camelon locally are very often referred to as the juniors and that was one of the rationale behind it

[Guest]

Ah right ye are. I never even realised they had 'Juniors' in the title to begin with

Dunipace have been Dunipace fc for years now.

[glensmad]

Dunipace have been Dunipace fc for years now.

Ironically they're not even based in Dunipace.

[Guest]

Ironically they're not even based in Dunipace.

Sshh you will just confuse everyone!