Junior football, what is the future?

[Marten]

Khufu, you can keep bringing up the 1up/1down situation, but all signs are that this will change, possibly to 2up/2down soon. If a WoSFL gets established with the top sides in the west, maybe it will go up to 3up/3down, which I would support.

As explained already in my previous post, you can't just claim certain teams are superior than others if they don't play each other in a league. Time will tell how Kelty and then next season's promoted team(s) will get on in the LL. And if the big junior teams are really that superior, chances are that them ending up in the LL will also improve the standard/crowds of other teams.

[Khufu2]

13 minutes ago, Snafu said:

It looks like you didn't read that 2nd post properly. I've already told you and I asked you about the LL because you might be able to share some of your knowledge given your efforts on the said subject of the Lowland League. It appears you are only guessing and assuming since none of your conclusions in your posts are based on any experience.

1) This is the Scottish Cup you are referring to? They don't play in the same league system.

2) You haven't explained what makes Junior clubs superior to Lowland League clubs, is it the facilities, the licensing,  is it involvement in the local communities?

3) Now that wasn't so difficult.

 

Oh right, so I actually have the advantage over you there then since I've seen Lowland League football, I've seen East juniors football and I've seen matches between Lowland League teams and East juniors.

If it helps Ive also seen EPL football,  SPFL football and seen cup games between teams from the two top leagues. Everything points towards the EPL being superior but it would be fun to follow the LL/EoS -with-enhanced-juniors model and merge the two leagues with the SPFL at the top and the EPL below and allow one promotion from the EPL to the SPFL each season. Things would soon sort themselves out. LOL!

[Khufu2]

21 minutes ago, Marten said:

As explained already in my previous post, you can't just claim certain teams are superior than others if they don't play each other in a league. Time will tell how Kelty and then next season's promoted team(s) will get on in the LL. And if the big junior teams are really that superior, chances are that them ending up in the LL will also improve the standard/crowds of other teams.

OK, I'll tell you now (you can file it for reference). Kelty will finish in the top 3.

[Khufu2]

26 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I get it you're a mummy nowadays and are so used to your surroundings staying the same. Unfortunately the format of promotion/relegation won't stay the same for the next 8 years.

And you know that, how?

[Marten]

6 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

OK, I'll tell you now (you can file it for reference). Kelty will finish in the top 3.

As said, I won't rule it out, but time will tell. And obviously you ignore many other arguments, from myself and others...

[Marshmallo]

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that, all things being equal, Talbot, Pollok, Beith or Bonnyrigg would be better teams and would finish higher than Dalbeattie Star or Edusport over a given season. It's absurd to think otherwise IMO.

That's why you play the games though, and the only way we'd find out for sure was if all these teams were in the same system. That's the full point of the pyramid.

A huge part of the interest for me in this topic is that I started going to Junior games about 5 years ago and absolutely loved it. I want to see how far these teams can go. The Juniors would be an asset, I don't think people need to run them down to try and make their point.

[FairWeatherFan]

7 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

And you know that, how?

I sacrificed the band Junior Senior on top of my pyramid. The gods told me.

[Nimmo's Notes]

59 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

1 up one down though.  4 up/down would sort out the east in a couple of years

All for this idea. I think with 16 team divisions throughout, this should be the norm. 

3 up, 3 down automatically, plus a play off between 4th top and 4th bottom. Would freshen up the leagues each season and wouldn't make relegation seem so bad as there's plenty opportunity to bounce back. 

[FairWeatherFan]

16 minutes ago, Nimmo's Notes said:

All for this idea. I think with 16 team divisions throughout, this should be the norm. 

3 up, 3 down automatically, plus a play off between 4th top and 4th bottom. Would freshen up the leagues each season and wouldn't make relegation seem so bad as there's plenty opportunity to bounce back. 

It's likely to be changed to: 2 up with the potential of 3 down depending on the result of the SPFL2 playoff. With no real WoS feeder set up it leaves flexibility going forward.

EDIT: There'd also be the potential for 3 up with that format. Lowland League Champion gets promoted/SPFL42 relegated to the Highland League. That leaves the Lowland League with only 15 clubs which under current rules would see the vacancy open to applications.

Edited May 29, 2018 by FairWeatherFan

[Khufu2]

10 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

It's likely to be changed to: 2 up with the potential of 3 down depending on the result of the SPFL2 playoff. With no real WoS feeder set up it leaves flexibility going forward.

And you know that, how?

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Khufu2 said:

And you know that, how?

 

22 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I sacrificed the band Junior Senior on top of my pyramid. The gods told me.

 

[Khufu2]

3 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

 

 

Your evasion only works once.  In fact you don't know, do you?

[Marten]

7 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

And you know that, how?

And how do you know it will be 1 up/1 down next season considering promotion/relegation has not been decided yet?

[FairWeatherFan]

11 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Your evasion only works once.  In fact you don't know, do you?

It's super dooper secret squirrel stuff, almost akin to common sense

The EoS creating a portfolio of benefits including the intention of additional promotion spots to the Lowland League.

The LL/SoS/EoS have monthly meetings, portfolio's been out there for months now and hasn't been contradicted.

The EoS has been hosting meetings with all these new applicants i'm sure it's been a topic of discussion and they've all basically signed up.

The EoS & LL secretary looks remarkably similar, identical even! I think two like minded individuals like them would be able to come to an agreement.

#conspiracy

Edited May 29, 2018 by FairWeatherFan

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

2) You haven't explained what makes Junior clubs superior to Lowland League clubs, is it the facilities, the licensing,  is it involvement in the local communities?
 

In terms of facilities and community engagement I cant think of any club which can beat Spartans in the junior game?
Then lets consider other LL grounds, Kelty’s is cracking, again show me a better junior ground? Broadwood (ok some purists may not like it but its a great facility).
Lets also consider the other grounds via groundshare in the LL, Falkirk stadium and Alloa, two cracking facilities, again what junior ground is superior? Gretnas ground also excellent. Im baffled anyone would try argue against your point.

[welshbairn]

8 minutes ago, Snafu said:

My original question

I acknowledged a couple of hours ago that you had more experience and knowledge of Lowland League football than I, why get so defensive and angry? I'm only interested in asking about the LL, I could have asked someone else and maybe they would have given a bit more insight and maybe there might have been a little nugget of info I didn't know. That is the point learning, not assuming nor happy in ignorance. You only showed your disrespect towards the Lowland League in trying to prove how superior in comparison Junior football is, which is not what I asked. You don't know what I know about Junior football, I might not know very much so I might have no basis to think your way in comparing LL and the Juniors, so I might not have had a clue what you are on about, assumptions, assumptions.

You could have told me what the facilities were like at the grounds you visited, the pitches, if there was a social club, could you get something to eat, its just as important as the quality on the pitch.

Maybe its just easier to ask a supporter of one of the LL clubs, they might actually know what they are talking about instead of talking BS

 

 

 

 

 

This is P+B m8, think you're after Tripadvisor.

[Khufu2]

24 minutes ago, Snafu said:

 

You could have told me what the facilities were like at the grounds you visited, the pitches, if there was a social club, could you get something to eat, its just as important as the quality on the pitch.

Maybe its just easier to ask a supporter of one of the LL clubs, they might actually know what they are talking about instead of talking BS.

 

To be fair it's not difficult to compare facilities. The internet's your friend. Though I would rather compare performance on the pitch rather than the availability of pies.

How about Selkirk:

The "terracing"

 

The grandstand

[Gimme]

It fulfils there needs and meets licensing criteria, no point in them building a 500 seated stand when 50 people turn up to watch every other week (no idea on actual attendance)

[Khufu2]

10 minutes ago, Gimme said:

It fulfils there needs and meets licensing criteria, no point in them building a 500 seated stand when 50 people turn up to watch every other week (no idea on actual attendance)

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. I'm not all that fussed anyway with having seats. I'd rather stand.

But for someone like snafu who apparently has never seen the facilities at Lowland League grounds it might be instructive. Some of them are pretty rustic compared to the grounds of some of the  ex-junior clubs, who are used to having crowds. but will be sitting below them in EoS.

 

 

[Hillonearth]

I like Selkirk's ground - it's pretty unique in its own Heath Robinson way, and its set in a nice part of the country.  I've been to all the current LL grounds bar Hawick, and it's a mixed bag - much like the Juniors in fact.

There's a lot to like about places like Whitehill and Dalbeattie - classic old school non-league grounds. Gala's a Soviet-chic masterpiece and while Victoria Park in Innerleithen's no great shakes it's set in a stunning bit of the world. The new builds aren't a million miles away from what Junior clubs are incrementally replacing their old grounds with either.

The only experiences I don't enjoy are the groundshares - more often than not less than 100 people rattling about a stadium designed to hold thousands inevitably detracts from the atmosphere. And that's not a dig at the LL - I feel exactly the same way when I see double figure in an SPFL ground at a development league game.