Anas Sarwar

[Loondave1]

The likely scenario is that the coalition falls apart with both sides blaming each other, the Tories get back in and we're back to square one.

Mmm..suspect your belief in that being the outcome is again because it threatens nationalism and you need the Tory bogeyman in situ at WM.

[Loondave1]

Btw, you Labour bois have some brass neck criticising nationalists for attacking Corbyn given the utter state of Slab this last decade.

Agreed.I won't argue with that.Times are a changing though.Anyway that's me for today which has been quite enjoyable and informative for a wee change.

[Wee-Bey]

3 minutes ago, Loondave1 said:

Mmm..suspect your belief in that being the outcome is again because it threatens nationalism and you need the Tory bogeyman in situ at WM.

Nah, just realpolitik m8.

[NotThePars]

31 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Btw, you Labour bois have some brass neck criticising nationalists for attacking Corbyn given the utter state of Slab this last decade.

 

Nah I agree and it's something I've raised at CLP meetings. The ongoing battles between the SNP and Labour aren't really about ideological disagreements and are more a worry over how Corbynism can take the wind out of the sails of the Yes movement and on Labour's behalf it's a lingering sense of entitlement and bitterness over the SNP rightfully replacing Labour in their former heartlands. 

[Loondave1]

 
Nah I agree and it's something I've raised at CLP meetings. The ongoing battles between the SNP and Labour aren't really about ideological disagreements and are more a worry over how Corbynism can take the wind out of the sails of the Yes movement and on Labour's behalf it's a lingering sense of entitlement and bitterness over the SNP rightfully replacing Labour in their former heartlands. 

As peace is breaking out on this forum maybe we can all climb a hill tomorrow and sing "I'd like to teach the world to sing/buy the world a coke". I'm tearing up i really am.

[invergowrie arab]

For years Corbyn went through the lobbies with the SNP more often than he did his own party.

In Scotland you were far more likely to find SNP members/ supporters wanting Corbyn to win his leadership elections than Labour members and certainly more than Labour elected members. On social media in Scotland it was independence supporters who were Corbyn's biggest supporters.

As soon as Corbyn became leader he took advice on Scottish matters from Neil Findlay and reverted to boorish tribalism spouting pish about "Nationalism" "turbo charged austerity" " cant eat flags"

The SNP went into the last two general elections pledging to work with Labour to keep the Tories out. In both Westminster elections Scottish Labour chose to attack and target the SNP.

These are facts

Even now the SNP would join with Labour tomorrow to oust the Tories and to protect people against Brexit. Labour's answer? No say for Holyrood in Brexit negotiations, no special deal for Scotland in Brexit and no engagement with the SNP or Scottish Government on the Scotland's Place in Europe paper.

So before anybody talks this pish about the Nats being rattled or fearful of Corbyn let us know exactly what pro european, pro independence Scots are meant to do to engage with him and his agenda or why he should get a free pass from criticism?

 

[bob the tank]

55. Wilson is the first PM i remember.
 

I would think someone your age could see labour for exactly what they are, and have been since the 1950's. If you were young your outlook is understandable, but at your age, I would have thought you would know better. Thanks for the answer by the way.

[Loondave1]

For years Corbyn went through the lobbies with the SNP more often than he did his own party.
In Scotland you were far more likely to find SNP members/ supporters wanting Corbyn to win his leadership elections than Labour members and certainly more than Labour elected members. On social media in Scotland it was independence supporters who were Corbyn's biggest supporters.
As soon as Corbyn became leader he took advice on Scottish matters from Neil Findlay and reverted to boorish tribalism spouting pish about "Nationalism" "turbo charged austerity" " cant eat flags"
The SNP went into the last two general elections pledging to work with Labour to keep the Tories out. In both Westminster elections Scottish Labour chose to attack and target the SNP.
These are facts

Even now the SNP would join with Labour tomorrow to oust the Tories and to protect people against Brexit. Labour's answer? No say for Holyrood in Brexit negotiations, no special deal for Scotland in Brexit and no engagement with the SNP or Scottish Government on the Scotland's Place in Europe paper.
So before anybody talks this pish about the Nats being rattled or fearful of Corbyn let us know exactly what pro european, pro independence Scots are meant to do to engage with him and his agenda or why he should get a free pass from criticism?
 

Rightly or wrongly any suggestion of a formal pact between the SNP and Labour is an electoral liability for Labour.The anti Labour/Corbyn media would be all over it.

[Loondave1]

I would think someone your age could see labour for exactly what they are, and have been since the 1950's. If you were young your outlook is understandable, but at your age, I would have thought you would know better. Thanks for the answer by the way.

The Labour Party have been a lot of things in my lifetime some not so good but they certainly have had some decent policies and achievements and i think it would be disingenuous to deny that.Even the Blair/Brown era had some real success with child poverty that has been reversed.Not sure what "seeing them for what they are" actually refers to if I'm honest.Even good old Harold guided us through a fairly succesful 1960s before the 70s and Callaghan hit the buffers.

[invergowrie arab]

3 minutes ago, Loondave1 said:

Rightly or wrongly any suggestion of a formal pact between the SNP and Labour is an electoral liability for Labour.The anti Labour/Corbyn media would be all over it.

The anti/Labour Corbyn media would be and continue to be all over everything he does.  What Corbyn has been able to do is show a positive message to ordinary people can cut through all of that. 

Corbyn isn't a pragmatic character he a conviction politician. So the only conclusion you can draw about his attitude to a progressive coalition and an EFTA, customs union, soft Irish border Brexit is he doesn't believe in it.

I have spoken to a couple of SNP MPs about this, including Pete Wishart who has worked with Corbyn and MacDonnell for years. Their take is that, whilst a decent guy with decent politics, Corbyn has no interest in and hence no understanding of Scotland.  He doesn't understand even the basics of devolved competencies (he is far from alone).

So, whilst I don't have anything against his politics and wish him good luck in getting to No.10 he has nothing to offer Scotland 

[Loondave1]

The anti/Labour Corbyn media would be and continue to be all over everything he does.  What Corbyn has been able to do is show a positive message to ordinary people can cut through all of that. 
Corbyn isn't a pragmatic character he a conviction politician. So the only conclusion you can draw about his attitude to a progressive coalition and an EFTA, customs union, soft Irish border Brexit is he doesn't believe in it.
I have spoken to a couple of SNP MPs about this, including Pete Wishart who has worked with Corbyn and MacDonnell for years. Their take is that, whilst a decent guy with decent politics, Corbyn has no interest in and hence no understanding of Scotland.  He doesn't understand even the basics of devolved competencies (he is far from alone).
So, whilst I don't have anything against his politics and wish him good luck in getting to No.10 he has nothing to offer Scotland 

I think a " couple of SNP MPs" may have an agenda and would say that though if im honest.

[TonMan]

42 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

The anti/Labour Corbyn media would be and continue to be all over everything he does.  What Corbyn has been able to do is show a positive message to ordinary people can cut through all of that. 

Corbyn isn't a pragmatic character he a conviction politician. So the only conclusion you can draw about his attitude to a progressive coalition and an EFTA, customs union, soft Irish border Brexit is he doesn't believe in it.

I have spoken to a couple of SNP MPs about this, including Pete Wishart who has worked with Corbyn and MacDonnell for years. Their take is that, whilst a decent guy with decent politics, Corbyn has no interest in and hence no understanding of Scotland.  He doesn't understand even the basics of devolved competencies (he is far from alone).

So, whilst I don't have anything against his politics and wish him good luck in getting to No.10 he has nothing to offer Scotland 

There's definitely some pragmatism in there insofar as he's largely abandoned his anti-Trident and anti-monarchy positions since he knows they're not going to get him elected. But aye, considering he's spent most of his career as a backbench MP who's never really been too involved in government, it's a bit obvious he's kind of clueless when it comes to Scotland. As a ton of politicians south of the border unfortunately tend to be.

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, ThatBoyRonaldo said:

There's a lot to be said for Corbyn but ultimately he's entirely wrong on the two biggest political issues in Scotland/the UK so...

Even then, how many of his policies are stuff that the SNP has already done or already supports up here? Most of the differences between the Labour left and the SNP left are aesthetic as opposed to substantive imo.

Corbyn is a non starter as a PM because he is only interested in a relatively small number of issues. He might have the right ideas on those issues, and be a good campaigner on them, but you'll notice that when it comes to (pretty major) things that he doesn’t have an existing interest in, he either makes gaffes or just shrugs his shoulders and expects his squad of goons to take the lead. Scotland, and its constitutional future, is one thing he doesn’t care about, or seem interested in learning about.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

10 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

So before anybody talks this pish about the Nats being rattled or fearful of Corbyn let us know exactly what pro european, pro independence Scots are meant to do to engage with him and his agenda or why he should get a free pass from criticism?

An excellent question, and one which no one from the Labour side seems to have an answer to. What's the point in backing Labour when they are on largely the same track as the Tories re the above two issues? 

7 hours ago, Loondave1 said:

I think a " couple of SNP MPs" may have an agenda and would say that though if im honest.

Aaaaaaand this is why everyone dismisses you as a shite troll. Honestly, 55 years old and your life basically consists of trolling a Politics sub-forum on a football messageboard 

Anyway, going back to the point about the SNP/Yes Movement fearing Corbyn. That, IMO is pretty risible. Corbyn, up against an utter shambles of a Tory Party, (indeed the only Tory Government I can remember being more unpopular was the pre 1997 version absolutely mired in sleaze), and a Prime Minister who refused to debate and was as weak as any in living memory, Corbyn still couldn't do enough to gain No10. Even with everything that's happened since, ie the Tories becoming even more of a shambles, May becoming even weaker (her premiership perfectly summed up by that clusterfuck of a conference speech), needing to be propped up by DUP god-bothering bigots, numerous gaffes by high ranking Tories, Grenfell, even with ALL that, Labour are only a couple of points ahead in most polls, and as history tells us, in most elections, England will shite it when faced with a potentially left wing(ish) PM and default to the fucking Tories. 

As for Scotland, with the so-called Corbyn effect, Labour only recovered 6 seats from the 40 they'd lost in 2015. They did however split the vote in SNP marginals enough to let the Tories in. The best Labour can hope for in Scotland is to once again creep into double figures and hope the Tories don't put too much daylight between the two of them. As much as I'd like to see the Tories emptied, I don't believe Corbyn will be able to do it, and even if he does, I don't seem him making much difference to me, or the people I work with. Labour have done virtually nothing useful in regards to Brexit, and they've allowed the Tories to crack on with Welfare "Reform" unhindered. For those reasons alone, I couldn't give a flying f**k if they fade into obscurity. 

[Loondave1]

Aaaaaaand this is why everyone dismisses you as a shite troll. Honestly, 55 years old and your life basically consists of trolling a Politics sub-forum on a football messageboard [emoji38]
Anyway, going back to the point about the SNP/Yes Movement fearing Corbyn. That, IMO is pretty risible. Corbyn, up against an utter shambles of a Tory Party, (indeed the only Tory Government I can remember being more unpopular was the pre 1997 version absolutely mired in sleaze), and a Prime Minister who refused to debate and was as weak as any in living memory, Corbyn still couldn't do enough to gain No10. Even with everything that's happened since, ie the Tories becoming even more of a shambles, May becoming even weaker (her premiership perfectly summed up by that clusterfuck of a conference speech), needing to be propped up by DUP god-bothering bigots, numerous gaffes by high ranking Tories, Grenfell, even with ALL that, Labour are only a couple of points ahead in most polls, and as history tells us, in most elections, England will shite it when faced with a potentially left wing(ish) PM and default to the fucking Tories. 
As for Scotland, with the so-called Corbyn effect, Labour only recovered 6 seats from the 40 they'd lost in 2015. They did however split the vote in SNP marginals enough to let the Tories in. The best Labour can hope for in Scotland is to once again creep into double figures and hope the Tories don't put too much daylight between the two of them. As much as I'd like to see the Tories emptied, I don't believe Corbyn will be able to do it, and even if he does, I don't seem him making much difference to me, or the people I work with. Labour have done virtually nothing useful in regards to Brexit, and they've allowed the Tories to crack on with Welfare "Reform" unhindered. For those reasons alone, I couldn't give a flying f**k if they fade into obscurity. 

I think my point was that a character reference for Corbyn by two SNP MPs might not be entirely even handed given their vested interest in him not succeeding.You may want to one day see the irony in the fact you leap in most days with some verbal abuse and yet see yourself as somehow an arbiter of who's opinion is worthwhile.The topic was being discussed relatively sensibly last night without your "input". More than happy to accept your "dismissal" of the validity of my opinions.All you have to do then is stop replying to them.Your lack of self awareness about the "style" of your own postings is a thing to behold.Best bit is you make a fine recruiting sergeant for a NO vote but are obviously too dumb to realise that.No need to reply remember.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I think my point was that a character reference for Corbyn by two SNP MPs might not be entirely even handed given their vested interest in him not succeeding.You may want to one day see the irony in the fact you leap in most days with some verbal abuse and yet see yourself as somehow an arbiter of who's opinion is worthwhile.The topic was being discussed relatively sensibly last night without your "input". More than happy to accept your "dismissal" of the validity of my opinions.All you have to do then is stop replying to them.Your lack of self awareness about the "style" of your own postings is a thing to behold.Best bit is you make a fine recruiting sergeant for a NO vote but are obviously too dumb to realise that.No need to reply remember.

Ooft. Seriously bathered ^^^

Perhaps if you hadn't spent the majority of posts on here outright trolling, you might be taken semi-seriously, rather than having to post the hilarious mewling pish above.

[Loondave1]

Ooft. Seriously bathered ^^^

Perhaps if you hadn't spent the majority of posts on here outright trolling, you might be taken semi-seriously, rather than having to post the hilarious mewling pish above.

9 mins and "incoming" . The irony of accusing others of spending there lives on a football forum is obviously lost on you.Like i say quit replying. "Don't feed the troll" and all that.Jog along.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

9 mins and "incoming" . The irony of accusing others of spending there lives on a football forum is obviously lost on you.Like i say quit replying. "Don't feed the troll" and all that.Jog along.

ROFL.

You've posted in this thread more in the last 8 hours than I've posted in the entire forum all week

[emoji38]

[mjw]

9 mins and "incoming" . The irony of accusing others of spending there lives on a football forum is obviously lost on you.Like i say quit replying. "Don't feed the troll" and all that.Jog along.

See these posters that post don't feed me/put me ignore through their tears and snotters.
Why sign up to forum with other people on it?

[Loondave1]

ROFL.

You've posted in this thread more in the last 8 hours than I've posted in the entire forum all week

[emoji38]

It was an interesting thread and i am not aware of having to measure everything by what you may or may have not done.Good too know you are official contribution monitor hopefully you get a hat or a wee badge.To all intents and purposes you are a borderline troll that doesn't realise that.I will now cease replying too you as I'm not really that interested in fuelling your Tourettes outbreaks.Feel free to follow suit.