Peppino Impastato Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, woof! said: I agree he looks to be very talented and will be an EPL player within 3 years. I wouldn’t have him in the full squad until he’s developed physically. I’d also like him to play alongside Billy Gilmour for a run of games so they have an understanding when they make the step up to the full team. I don’t see either player being in the u21s, unless they skip the 19s. This is a good post. I think both are already playing a bit behind where they should be playing 17s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesM82 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 40 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said: So has Scott brown, and you really mean once. He's already much more physically able than xavi ever was and he did OK. Intl football is actually less physical than Scottish premiership. Now I know you're taking the piss. Xavi and Iniesta are both short-arses, but they're both incredibly strong. Cochrane isn't, at least not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, JamesM82 said: Now I know you're taking the piss. Xavi and Iniesta are both short-arses, but they're both incredibly strong. Cochrane isn't, at least not yet. Are they? Have you wrestled them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widge Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Are they? Have you wrestled them? I’ve only arm wrestled Xavi, but my mate knows Leo Messi who tells him that’s Iniesta regularly scored 800+ on one of those fairground punch machines. So yeah they’re both very strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Widge said: I’ve only arm wrestled Xavi, but my mate knows Leo Messi who tells him that’s Iniesta regularly scored 800+ on one of those fairground punch machines. So yeah they’re both very strong. That's awesome. How did you get on against xavi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widge Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 That's awesome. How did you get on against xavi? Beat me in a best of three, but I think he cheated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Widge said: Beat me in a best of three, but I think he cheated. You think he was juiced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owsley Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I see us repeating the old mistakes. How is Cochrane not at least in the U19s? Other countries fast track their top talents. Rooney and Walcott got full caps at 17. Erikssen of Spurs was an full cap at 18. Remember that Georgia team that beat us with three players aged 16-17? Sure, Cochrane has a lot of filling out to do but he should still be tested against older players. If he can hold down a fairly regular spot in a top tier midfield, he can surely handle 18 and 19 year olds. U17s may be too easy for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 53 minutes ago, Owsley said: I see us repeating the old mistakes. How is Cochrane not at least in the U19s? Other countries fast track their top talents. Rooney and Walcott got full caps at 17. Erikssen of Spurs was an full cap at 18. Remember that Georgia team that beat us with three players aged 16-17? Sure, Cochrane has a lot of filling out to do but he should still be tested against older players. If he can hold down a fairly regular spot in a top tier midfield, he can surely handle 18 and 19 year olds. U17s may be too easy for him. Exactly. Holland will happily call a guy up to the senior squad as a teenager with three appearances for their club. Cochrane should be at least 19s but realistically very soon past that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesM82 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Owsley said: I see us repeating the old mistakes. How is Cochrane not at least in the U19s? Other countries fast track their top talents. Rooney and Walcott got full caps at 17. Erikssen of Spurs was an full cap at 18. Remember that Georgia team that beat us with three players aged 16-17? Sure, Cochrane has a lot of filling out to do but he should still be tested against older players. If he can hold down a fairly regular spot in a top tier midfield, he can surely handle 18 and 19 year olds. U17s may be too easy for him. Players who are given full caps early are normally top players, i.e. guys who already justify selection because they are one of the best available in that position. Rooney was a star of Euro 2004 at 18 and got sold for £30M later that summer. We gave Kieran Tierney his debut at 18 and he was made captain against Holland aged 20. We shouldn't be just giving caps out willy nilly in the vain hope that somebody will "develop". Pick your best players, it's not rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 20 minutes ago, JamesM82 said: Players who are given full caps early are normally top players, i.e. guys who already justify selection because they are one of the best available in that position. Rooney was a star of Euro 2004 at 18 and got sold for £30M later that summer. We gave Kieran Tierney his debut at 18 and he was made captain against Holland aged 20. We shouldn't be just giving caps out willy nilly in the vain hope that somebody will "develop". Pick your best players, it's not rocket science. Aye that's the point champ. Cochrane is already as good as mcginn. You need to fast track your best young players and he's clearly one of ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Realistically how much does International football develop a player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesM82 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Grant228 said: Realistically how much does International football develop a player? I suppose it might help a little to play against different opponents, with different strengths and qualities. This is more true for players in small to medium sized countries, where the number of opponents is smaller and their quality is typically lower. But the bulk of development has to be done by the player and his club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 In reality, probably very little, but I'm sure Pep will be along to give his "expert" opinion and tell us why we're all wrong. If a player is going to be of sufficient enough quality for international football at one point, I doubt that point will change massively from playing international football. Of course it'll make some difference - you're playing against players you wouldn't usually, alongside players you wouldn't usually, and the quality should be a step up. But it isn't going to change a fringe player into a superstar, or push things in the other direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 20 minutes ago, Grant228 said: Realistically how much does International football develop a player? A lot imo. Certainly more than playing Motherwell. And it's a great preparation for intl football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, forameus said: In reality, probably very little, but I'm sure Pep will be along to give his "expert" opinion and tell us why we're all wrong. If a player is going to be of sufficient enough quality for international football at one point, I doubt that point will change massively from playing international football. Of course it'll make some difference - you're playing against players you wouldn't usually, alongside players you wouldn't usually, and the quality should be a step up. But it isn't going to change a fringe player into a superstar, or push things in the other direction. Also tactics and styles are different and a higher level. And the more different environments and even climates you play in the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Problemo Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Aye that's the point champ. Cochrane is already as good as mcginn. You need to fast track your best young players and he's clearly one of ours. McGinn is probably overrated by many but c’mon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 9 hours ago, Owsley said: I see us repeating the old mistakes. How is Cochrane not at least in the U19s? Other countries fast track their top talents. Rooney and Walcott got full caps at 17. Erikssen of Spurs was an full cap at 18. Remember that Georgia team that beat us with three players aged 16-17? Sure, Cochrane has a lot of filling out to do but he should still be tested against older players. If he can hold down a fairly regular spot in a top tier midfield, he can surely handle 18 and 19 year olds. U17s may be too easy for him. You don't want to burn the lad out, Hearts are a bit over reliant on these guys as it is. They will have plenty of time for Youth caps. It's easy to forget but they are effectively still kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 7 hours ago, sergie's no1 fan said: You don't want to burn the lad out, Hearts are a bit over reliant on these guys as it is. They will have plenty of time for Youth caps. It's easy to forget but they are effectively still kids. This is a 16 year old keeping seasoned pros like Don cowie out of the team. They're not over reliant they're picking him cause he's better than the alternatives. Burn out is a fallacy he's 16 and can run all day and he's playing a game for the 17s anyway so what difference does it make if it's for the 19s or 21s. If he wants to become a top player they play three times a week for 15 years he's going to have to get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distant Doonhamer Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 7 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said: This is a 16 year old keeping seasoned pros like Don Cowie out of the team. They're not over reliant they're picking him cause he's better than the alternatives. Burn out is a fallacy he's 16 and can run all day and he's playing a game for the 17s anyway so what difference does it make if it's for the 19s or 21s. If he wants to become a top player they play three times a week for 15 years he's going to have to get used to it. Alex Ferguson previoulsy quoted that he regretted "overplaying" the likes of Eric Black and John Hewitt at Aberdeen when they first hit the first team. That of course is 30 odd years ago and I suspect sports science has moved on somewhat but Black in particular seemed to develop chronic injury problems that many put down to being overplayed at a relatively young age. Who`s to say it wouldn`t have happened anyway of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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