Catalonia

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, tirso said:

Good post. The crazy thing about Welsh bairns post is Spain isn't really considering voting fascist at all though. It's a party with 10% of the vote and the largest party will probably be the centre left.

His grasp of what's going on leaves a lot to be desired. From top to bottom bollocks

Looks like a 50/50 between a right wing coalition including the fascists and a left wing coalition including the Catalonians. Hope they called it right. We'll find out soon enough.

[tirso]

The Right routed in Spain.

In Catalunya increased vote and seats for independence parties.

If I was using flawed logic I suppose the 'Catalonians' should be congratulated for strengthening the socialists grip on power.   Those rich Catalans, what are they like.

 

[welshbairn]

Pro independence parties still at only 22 out of 48 seats in Madrid for Catalonian parties, best result yet though.. May's regional and local elections will be interesting. Puigdemont's centre right party has lost a bit of ground but the left wing independence party has done well.

[Tibbermoresaint]

14 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Pro independence parties still at only 22 out of 48 seats in Madrid for Catalonian parties, best result yet though.. May's regional and local elections will be interesting. Puigdemont's centre right party has lost a bit of ground but the left wing independence party has done well.

What a surprise that your predictions about the Spanish elections would turn out to be complete bollocks.

[welshbairn]

18 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

What a surprise that your predictions about the Spanish elections would turn out to be complete bollocks.

I didn't make a prediction, just that it was huge risk for the Catalonians to force the election. As it turns out they've probably lost their leverage in Madrid, so it was stupid. And they created the opportunity for a load of fascists to enter Parliament.  

Edited April 29, 2019 by welshbairn

[wastecoatwilly]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Pro independence parties still at only 22 out of 48 seats in Madrid for Catalonian parties, best result yet though.. May's regional and local elections will be interesting. Puigdemont's centre right party has lost a bit of ground but the left wing independence party has done well.

WOW only 22! bit of a catch 22

[TavTastic]

On 4/27/2019 at 11:55, welshbairn said:

Scotland is not the same as Catalonia. I want Scotland to be independent to likely stop us ever being ruled by Tories again. The Catalonians have forced an election that will likely replace a socialist Government with a right wing/fascist coalition. Jailing the Catalonian politicians was mindbogglingly stupid and wrong, but the so called referendum was illegal and boycotted by those who want to stay part of Spain, so meaningless. 

Lots of good points made here. Many pro-EU Scottish nationalists project their own views onto Catalonian separatists which aren't actually common views in the movement. 

Many Catalonian nationalists are anti-EU and a common insult that the nationalists call Spaniards means "mongrel". The purpose of the mongrel insult, more often used against Andalusians, is implying that Catalonians are pure white Europeans while Spaniards are mixed with the Muslims who formed Al-Andalus. Quim Torra himself has made very similar comments in the past and openly talked about Catalonian racial supremacy.

[tirso]

Lots of good points made here. Many pro-EU Scottish nationalists project their own views onto Catalonian separatists which aren't actually common views in the movement. 
Many Catalonian nationalists are anti-EU and a common insult that the nationalists call Spaniards means "mongrel". The purpose of the mongrel insult, more often used against Andalusians, is implying that Catalonians are pure white Europeans while Spaniards are mixed with the Muslims who formed Al-Andalus. Quim Torra himself has made very similar comments in the past and openly talked about Catalonian racial supremacy.

As someone with Catalan roots, I can assure you you're talking bollocks. Please tell me exactly how common the anti EU sentiment in Catalunya is please. I presume you have facts to back this majority idea.

I understand some Scottish independence people may want to appear moderate by distancing themselves. I do not have an opinion on what they should do but this idea a significant amount of people think they are racially supreme is straight out of propaganda of the other side.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Lots of good points made here. Many pro-EU Scottish nationalists project their own views onto Catalonian separatists which aren't actually common views in the movement. 
Many Catalonian nationalists are anti-EU and a common insult that the nationalists call Spaniards means "mongrel". The purpose of the mongrel insult, more often used against Andalusians, is implying that Catalonians are pure white Europeans while Spaniards are mixed with the Muslims who formed Al-Andalus. Quim Torra himself has made very similar comments in the past and openly talked about Catalonian racial supremacy.

In my limited experience the fact that Andalusia is full of backwards arseholes who speak funny seems to be one of the few things that the rest of Spain can agree on.

Imagine if Wales was taken even less seriously

[TavTastic]

1 hour ago, tirso said:

As someone with Catalan roots, I can assure you you're talking bollocks. Please tell me exactly how common the anti EU sentiment in Catalunya is please. I presume you have facts to back this majority idea.

I understand some Scottish independence people may want to appear moderate by distancing themselves. I do not have an opinion on what they should do but this idea a significant amount of people think they are racially supreme is straight out of propaganda of the other side.

The Catalan nationalist parties' positions on the EU generally tends towards supporting an EFTA relationship. Now it could very well be argued that this in reaction to the EU supporting the Spanish Government's position on the referendum but doesn't change that being the case.

[Tibbermoresaint]

23 minutes ago, TavTastic said:

The Catalan nationalist parties' positions on the EU generally tends towards supporting an EFTA relationship. 

That wasn't the case in 2017. They were all pro-EU. I'm not aware of any change in their position since then.

[tirso]

The Catalan nationalist parties' positions on the EU generally tends towards supporting an EFTA relationship. Now it could very well be argued that this in reaction to the EU supporting the Spanish Government's position on the referendum but doesn't change that being the case.

Sorry you are writing complete nonsense again. ERC and PdeCat support EU membership.

 

Still waiting on any evidence of this commonly held view...

 

Literally don't know a single Catalan that wants outside of the EU.

 

[tirso]

That wasn't the case in 2017. They were all pro-EU. I'm not aware of any change in their position since then.

There isn't. Even if it was, It's hardly evidence of a xenophobic leaning which the guff was trying to insinuate.

[TavTastic]

4 minutes ago, tirso said:

7 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

That wasn't the case in 2017. They were all pro-EU. I'm not aware of any change in their position since then.

There isn't. Even if it was, It's hardly evidence of a xenophobic leaning which the guff was trying to insinuate.

My mistake on the political positions of the two main parties, I accept that. It's not uncommon for grassroots Catalan nationalists to be anti-EU though.

It is true however, as I mentioned before, that the prominent separatist Quim Torra has made overtly racist statements in the past.

[tirso]

My mistake on the political positions of the two main parties, I accept that. It's not uncommon for grassroots Catalan nationalists to be anti-EU though.
It is true however, as I mentioned before, that the prominent separatist Quim Torra has made overtly racist statements in the past.

Sorry how common is it please? Would be good to get numbers. Tiny fraction I think you mean.

[Tibbermoresaint]

3 minutes ago, TavTastic said:

It's not uncommon for grassroots Catalan nationalists to be anti-EU though.

 

Evidence please.

[TavTastic]

Just now, tirso said:

3 minutes ago, TavTastic said:

My mistake on the political positions of the two main parties, I accept that. It's not uncommon for grassroots Catalan nationalists to be anti-EU though.
It is true however, as I mentioned before, that the prominent separatist Quim Torra has made overtly racist statements in the past.

Sorry how common is it please? Would be good to get numbers. Tiny fraction I think you mean.

I don't have a poll. I've noticed that it's a frequent opinion amongst them on social media. Understandable to an extent. They are angry and feel that the EU is just backing up Spain to their detriment.

[JMDP]

On 3/1/2019 at 17:43, welshbairn said:

I know they're a mixed bunch of left and right, but they've probably just handed power in Madrid to the Right and Very Far Right by voting down the budget and forcing an election.

This aged well.

[tirso]

I don't have a poll. I've noticed that it's a frequent opinion amongst them on social media. Understandable to an extent. They are angry and feel that the EU is just backing up Spain to their detriment.

Of course people are angry. Quite rightly. It doesn't mean they're UKIP or in any way similar which is what you tried to insinuate.

Vast majority of Catalans want to be in the EU. Whether pro or anti independence.

[tirso]

I'm sorry it really pisses me off this. I don't even really support it if you get to the rationality of it until they started jailing people but give a bit of slack to people that just want to vote on their future. They're not rich people trying to steal off others or supremacists. Many of them simply believe they're a country and should have a right. Theyre normal people , not radicals. You might not agree but it's sincerely held.
There's a big debate to be had but leave out the accusations of ukippery. It's not correct.