welshbairn Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: Not at all. This referendum has the approval of the Catalan Parliament and Government. Which has no constitutional right to call a referendum or declare independence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Which has no constitutional right to call a referendum or declare independence. That's an opinion. Events have a habit of overtaking opinions. Edited September 18, 2017 by Tibbermoresaint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: Only one side can make this a repeat of the Civil War. I doubt if you'll be much of a match for the Guardia Civil in Perth or Quebec tbf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Whilst we are all having a lot of fun here it's important as the zoomer element of the independence movement have someone in every constituency association taking up valuable meeting time with this UDI shite. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 It's like Sinn Fein calling and organizing an independence referendum in Northern Ireland, without the agreement of anyone else. Unionists would boycott it, and every national and international body would ignore the result as meaningless. If the Catalan indy enthusiasts declared independence on the basis of a disputed and shambolic referendum where only their supporters turned out, they'll be universally ignored, rightfully. Pretty sure there was a similar situation in Transnistria where the government held an independence referendum, won in an absolute landslide and the result was widely ignored because it was an absolute sham. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Which has no constitutional right to call a referendum or declare independence. In fairness, how did any country get independence. Former parent countries weren't very big in offering constitutional rights. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, welshbairn said: I doubt if you'll be much of a match for the Guardia Civil in Perth or Quebec tbf What a bizarre comment. Care to explain it? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Just now, John Lambies Doos said: In fairness, how did any country get independence. Former parent countries weren't very big in offering constitutional rights. The principle of self determination really took off once the imperial powers were too rooked after two world wars to do anything much about it so thought it better to do it with a smile and just run the countries as puppet states or hold onto the natural resources through our banks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: The principle of self determination really took off once the imperial powers were too rooked after two world wars to do anything much about it so thought it better to do it with a smile and just run the countries as puppet states or hold onto the natural resources through our banks. As America said at Suez in 1956, "get back in your boxes, ya rockets". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: What a bizarre comment. Care to explain it? You seem to be arguing for armed insurrection in Catalonia from the safety of Perth or Montreal. Thankfully I think the locals are far more sensible and have stronger memories. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 The principle of self determination really took off once the imperial powers were too rooked after two world wars to do anything much about it so thought it better to do it with a smile and just run the countries as puppet states or hold onto the natural resources through our banks. Yes I agree with this. I have a mate from Ivory Coast that informed me their independence agreement stated that the French continue to own any resources found >5 metres underground (might not be 5 but you get the point). The French still have a military presence there to protect this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, welshbairn said: You seem to be arguing for armed insurrection in Catalonia from the safety of Perth or Montreal. Thankfully I think the locals are far more sensible and have stronger memories. I am doing nothing of the sort. The only side which can bring arms into play is the Castillians. I hope they don't but I have my doubts about what they will do. You really are a strange little man. Edited September 18, 2017 by Tibbermoresaint -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tibbermoresaint said: You seem very opposed to Catalan independence. May I ask why? The same reason I'm opposed to Brexit. One of the wealthiest contributors to peace, stability and prosperity in a region abdicating responsibility so it can save a few quid, and avoid these boring meetings about cooperation and compromise. Bet the Ruskie botnets are on overtime at the moment. Edited September 18, 2017 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 54 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: Pretty sure there was a similar situation in Transnistria where the government held an independence referendum, won in an absolute landslide and the result was widely ignored because it was an absolute sham. Not on any way comparable. Transnistria is a statelet created by war and owes its continued existence to a mixture of Russian gangsterism and being the black hole where Russia can do and sell whatever it denies doing / selling. Not really a useful comparison tbh whatever your view on Catalan independence. The reaction of the Spanish government seems totally crazy to me. Pretty much guarantees Catalan independence short of declaring a permanent state of emergency and locking up tens if not hundreds of thousands of folk. Roasters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 I went an looked up the actual results of the Slovenia referendum. 95% of voters in favor. 89% of eligible voters cast ballots in favor. For some reason I think that's not really a comparable situation to what's going on in Spain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 If we're comparing it to Slovenian independence I take it we're just totally ignoring that they had the 'Ten Day War' and that alongside the Croatian Declaration of Independence it kicked off six years of war and genocide in the region? Slovenia was spared as a result of its geographic location, and a higher ethnic Serb population in Croatia and Bosnia as much as anything else. Not sure it's really the best example for Catalonia to be looking at... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 If we're comparing it to Slovenian independence I take it we're just totally ignoring that they had the 'Ten Day War' and that alongside the Croatian Declaration of Independence it kicked off six years of war and genocide in the region? Slovenia was spared as a result of its geographic location, and a higher ethnic Serb population in Croatia and Bosnia as much as anything else. Not sure it's really the best example for Catalonia to be looking at... Sorry we're not allowing actual context in this discussion. I think the Catalonians should look to the Paraguayans and shut their country for 40 years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 I like Tibbermoresaint's idea that No voters can't complain if they don't turnout for a sham referendum. Maybe Sturgeon should hold another one and withhold the polling locations from anyone that isn't likely to vote Yes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 11 minutes ago, NotThePars said: I like Tibbermoresaint's idea that No voters can't complain if they don't turnout for a sham referendum. Can you point out where I suggested that please? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 If No voters don't turn up they will have no-one to blame but themselves for the consequences of their actions. I'm not sure why you think that it's an illegal referendum though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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