The Aberdeen Mega-Hyper New Stadium Thread

[strichener]

5 hours ago, Dunty said:

 

There was opposition - but not a group that were actively out campaigning, getting signatures, delivering leaflets, posting scare stories and encouraging everyone to object. I tend to think if this gets rejected we'll see similar groups pop up wherever it gets built - including even a rebuilt Pittodrie. They can't object to a stadium already there but they sure as hell can kick up a fuss over a new one.

A lot of older people are now on social media that would never have touched it before, which allows NIMBYs to become more actively involved.

Interesting that the NKS group have consistently pushed for Loirston as the site, then state their reasons for objections as ones Loirston/Cove residents would have. The epitome of nimbyisn.

Care to list the scare stories and why you consider them to be scare stories rather than genuine concerns.

[strichener]

2 hours ago, fatshaft said:

I live past Westhill, I go to Pittodrie, I was brought up in the area, I drive these roads all the time. I'm sorry my opinion based on my daily experiences here count for less than yours from 60 miles away. I bow to your superior knowledge of MY back yard, you arrogant c**t 

Were you driving the roads on Tuesday morning when there was a 50 minute delay heading to Aberdeen?

Edited December 21, 2017 by strichener

[1320Lichtie]

I live past Westhill, I go to Pittodrie, I was brought up in the area, I drive these roads all the time. I'm sorry my opinion based on my daily experiences here count for less than yours from 60 miles away. I bow to your superior knowledge of MY back yard, you arrogant c**t 

State of this

Worse than the WANKS patter

[Elixir]

58 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Can't wait for Hearts to put a half decent challenge in again. 

[lubo_blaha]

At Kingsford they're not all travelling in the same direction, they come from all points, whereas everything funnels to Pittodrie because there is the sea on one side. I made a drawing a few pages back to illustrate.
 
So yes, you're right, though I think you're confusing which is the bigger problem?

At Pittodrie, some people drive via various roads ( from north, south and west) and park in various places within a 20 minutes of the ground. Several thousand take the bus or train into the centre and walk in or even walk from their own homes since the stadium is within the city.

For Kingsford, 90% of the city traffic will come from Long Stracht/Skene Road and then merge together for miles before being met with all the traffic coming off the AWPR. This includes 50-100 buses which obviously isn’t the case at Pittodrie. They would then have to wait in two lanes (one temporary) for a traffic light controlled right turn entry to the stadium site, seven miles from the city centre. A small percentage would come from the back roads into the West end of the stadium site.

Your drawings don’t take into account the fact that thousands of people take regular public transport or even walk to Pittodrie and wouldn’t do so to Kingsford. They also don’t take into account that Aberdeen can handle thousands of people parking in their streets/car parks and Kingswells/Westhill can’t.

Aberdeen FC should not be moving several miles out of the city of Aberdeen. The land may be cheap but it’s going to create an incredibly unappealing matchday experience, particularly surrounding transport, which will put off many outside the hardcore support. It will be good financially in the short term but in twenty years time we’ll be regretting moving out of the city, in my opinion.

[PauloPerth]

2 hours ago, Darren said:

How are they going to do that? Build over a public road and knock down a few houses?

Roads can be re-routed, they could build up the way, tiers stacked rather than one behind the other. I wouldn't think it would be too much of a challenge architecturally when you see some stadia designs these days.  

The clubs only need 3 stands, one was already replaced in the 90's.

[1320Lichtie]

At Pittodrie, some people drive via various roads ( from north, south and west) and park in various places within a 20 minutes of the ground. Several thousand take the bus or train into the centre and walk in or even walk from their own homes since the stadium is within the city.

For Kingsford, 90% of the city traffic will come from Long Stracht/Skene Road and then merge together for miles before being met with all the traffic coming off the AWPR. This includes 50-100 buses which obviously isn’t the case at Pittodrie. They would then have to wait in two lanes (one temporary) for a traffic light controlled right turn entry to the stadium site, seven miles from the city centre. A small percentage would come from the back roads into the West end of the stadium site.

Your drawings don’t take into account the fact that thousands of people take regular public transport or even walk to Pittodrie and wouldn’t do so to Kingsford. They also don’t take into account that Aberdeen can handle thousands of people parking in their streets/car parks and Kingswells/Westhill can’t.

Aberdeen FC should not be moving several miles out of the city of Aberdeen. The land may be cheap but it’s going to create an incredibly unappealing matchday experience, particularly surrounding transport, which will put off many outside the hardcore support. It will be good financially in the short term but in twenty years time we’ll be regretting moving out of the city, in my opinion.

Fatshaft drives the roads all the time though

[fatshaft]

11 hours ago, strichener said:

Care to list the scare stories and why you consider them to be scare stories rather than genuine concerns.

Otters

Birds

Deer

Pipelines

Terrorists

Traffic @ a standstill

Traffic @ 80mph

A944 closed for 3 hours every match day (yes literally closed)

The footbridge, omg, never been done anywhere, oh how they laughed

Hooligans who are still very active just that they never go to the football grounds only surrounds like Westhill

Hooligans inside grounds throwing chairs at old ladies ^^^(this was the same guy, Charlie Love)

Drunks roaming the streets of Westhill

Won't be able to get to the cinema

Ambulances won't be able to get past

House prices

Won't be able to get to Westhill shops

Won't be able to park in own driveway

 

I could say why they are scare stories and not genuine concerns, but there's no need is there?

[fatshaft]

11 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

State of this

Worse than the WANKS patter

 

No answer then. Cheers. 

11 hours ago, strichener said:

Were you driving the roads on Tuesday morning when there was a 50 minute delay heading to Aberdeen?

Nope, things happen. Crash I assume? 

Were you on Seaforth road on Saturday at 3.15pm when football traffic was still queuing to get across king Street?

[fatshaft]

9 hours ago, lubo_blaha said:

 

For Kingsford, 90% of the city traffic will come from Long Stracht/Skene Road and then merge together for miles before being met with all the traffic coming off the AWPR. 

 

Don't be silly. Look at the Supporters survey, how many come from south of the city? They are coming up the AWPR, or coming from the B9119.

How many from the A96 corridor? Also coming either down the AWPR or along Straik Road.

How many north of Aberdeen/Dyce/Bucksburn - all also coming down the dual carraigeway AWPR. 

 

Only  a few of these queing to get into Kingsford car park, many will park in Westhill area where unlike the surrounds of Pittodrie, it's not all parking badges. 

[fatshaft]

2 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Fatshaft drives the roads all the time though

 

No answer then, cheers

[strichener]

55 minutes ago, fatshaft said:

Otters

Birds

Deer

Pipelines

Terrorists

Traffic @ a standstill

Traffic @ 80mph

A944 closed for 3 hours every match day (yes literally closed)

The footbridge, omg, never been done anywhere, oh how they laughed

Hooligans who are still very active just that they never go to the football grounds only surrounds like Westhill

Hooligans inside grounds throwing chairs at old ladies ^^^(this was the same guy, Charlie Love)

Drunks roaming the streets of Westhill

Won't be able to get to the cinema

Ambulances won't be able to get past

House prices

Won't be able to get to Westhill shops

Won't be able to park in own driveway

 

I could say why they are scare stories and not genuine concerns, but there's no need is there?

How many of these are actual scare stories from residents rather than scare stories attributed to residents by AFC and supporters of Kingsford?  Did you hear the one about Pittodrie managing to drive away supporters to the degree that has NEVER been done before?  Or how about Kingsford being the ONLY option?  Nope?  I am sure you must have heard about AFC having to relocate their European games to the central belt!

If you want to see genuine, well thought out concerns and criticism of the AFC bullshit then I would direct you to both the Westhill and Kingswells community councils responses.  No scare-mongering and very pertinent questions over the use of different numbers when arguing different points.

[fatshaft]

13 minutes ago, strichener said:

How many of these are actual scare stories from residents rather than scare stories attributed to residents by AFC and supporters of Kingsford? 

I watched the pre-determination hearing, I've been to all three public meetings, I went to the Dons presentation at the Westhill Inn.

All of those are first hand, indeed if you haven't been blocked, you'll find them all on the WANKS facebook page or twitter feed. 

edit: And I was also at the recent WECC meeting which was solely to discuss the upcoming hearing. Well thought out they are not, nor is the KWC one. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by fatshaft

[strichener]

1 minute ago, fatshaft said:

I watched the pre-determination hearing, I've been to all three public meetings, I went to the Dons presentation at the Westhill Inn.

All of those are first hand, indeed if you haven't been blocked, you'll find them all on the WANKS facebook page or twitter feed. 

 

Your continued use of this phrase says more about you than anyone that you are attempting to deride. 

Did you not post previously indications that you are an adult?

[fatshaft]

2 minutes ago, strichener said:

Your continued use of this phrase says more about you than anyone that you are attempting to deride. 

Did you not post previously indications that you are an adult?

It was after all the original name of their Facebook page, their fault, it's stuck, and is not relevant to the discussion. 

[fatshaft]

Minutes from the final "public" meeting:

 

 

So, very well attended, 320 they thought, how many undercover agents other than myself among those though, who knows?
Meeting chaired by Alastair McKelvie, also in attendance the other three councillors for ward 13, and Burnett & Rumbles, the MSPs for the area. Guy from TV and a guy from the P&J/EE.

McKelvie lead off with his comments, points against:
•   Green Belt – we’ve heard all this one before
•   Big Buildings – didn’t catch his point as he kept moving away from the mic
•   Noise – apparently the noise from a Dons game is horrendous. Clearly never been near Pittodrie in his life
•   Air Quality - now I’m sorry, but what? Apparently the stadium will have a negative effect on the area. He didn’t explain how cars moving directly onto dual carriageways and away  rather than being gridlocked on King Street  and surrounds would increase this pollution, seems utterly perverse.

We then moved on to some of the NKS committee
•   The reason for Kingsford is co-location of stadium and training facilities, NKS feel there’s no need as plenty of other clubs (most) don’t do this. They of course fail to point out this is because traditionally stadiums were hemmed in in city centres and simply couldn’t do this. This is a progressive modern development where clearly it is preferable that they are co-located
•   This will lead to Prime 4 being granted change of use and developed, and houses on the other side of the road, leading to full development between Kingswells and Westhill

Lady who used to work for SEPA took the stage
•   Noise – again
•   Fan Zone noise – apparently this will also be deafening and go on for four hours before hand and two hours afterwards
•   There are otters, deer and 42 species of birds fly overhead.

Next up is the traffic “expert”
•   Parking – there will be yellow lines everywhere, but fans will ignore them because there will be no traffic wardens and police will be too busy to bother about parking violations
•   AWPR – This was the best bit, apparently “it only goes north/ south, what about people coming from the tyrebagger” – well Mr, they will join the AWPR at Craibstone and pop right across from there, they sure won’t come through tyrebagger woods unless they’re mintal. “And what about Banchory, Alford etc” – seemingly forgetting that these people all already come through Westhill for a home game. His points here were laughable
•   He then moved onto Arnhall parking, where there are currently 600 places sorted, but “how will fans cross a busy dual carriageway?”. He then brings up a picture of a footbridge the likes of which you see up and down the country. This was hysterical to the assembled crowd. Easily amused, you can understand Mrs Browns Boys popularity after this.

Diane Reid is next to speak talking about the legal issues
•   NKS have reserved Gillespie MacAndrew from Edinburgh as their advocates, they have history of blocking a similar development in St Andrews.
•   Costs will likely amount to £60k if they have to appeal a successful planning application for the stadium. So far they have £5k raised
•   They are looking for “loans” and pledges from the crowd, and everyone received a leaflet on leaving
•   The P&J has been very biased she adds to her piece
•   There is a site visit at 2pm on Sept 11th from the city councillors, they plan a protest

Questions and statements from the floor
•   It was pointed out not getting many is worse than no protest at all, they plan big numbers
•   If Dons lose and appeal, they will re-appeal
•   There seem to be concerns (from the club) that the ground could be contaminated, hence why machinery has been seen drilling in the fields
•   Question about concerts – apparently there was an outdoor wedding in the area last year and some poor woman could hear it in Kingswells
•   KCC was praised for it’s “tremendous job”.  John Gerrie (sp) stood and gave us all a run down on how often he’d been on TV and radio, and how his Radio Scotland interview had been repeated hourly. He seemed rather pleased with himself. He finished with “unfortunately the trouble with the press is they want to give both sides, so whenever I was on Stewarty Milne (or other) was on not long after giving the clubs view” .  Imagine that eh, the sheer cheek of the press trying to be fair?
•   Gerrie claims he stepped down from KCC so that he could approach the press as a plain citizen rather than as a community councillor, so KCC will not be withdrawing their objection.
•   He was very pleased with himself, and the allegations made are simply incorrect
•   Many residents were keen to precede their questions/statements with “I’ve been in Westhill since......” confirming of course they are not local and have themselves moved into green belt housing.
•   Police have not objected at all, seemingly to the disgust of residents
•   Ian Douglas raised a question about why if T in the Park was moved due to piplines under the site, are AFC being allowed to build here. He got this answer at the previous NO meeting which he was also at, but hey, let’s go again. As was again pointed out, the development is within the safe zones, and neither BP nor Shell, the stakeholders, have any objection to this build.
•   Ian Fyfe, a shareholder and Dons fan he says, then brought up why has this not been classified as a business relocation and blocked on those grounds. I couldn’t hear him properly so not sure what the argument is.
•   From the top table, disgust was expressed that the community facilities would “only” be a couple of football pitches, but no indoor gym or other facilities are going to be provided for the community by the club. Gotta love it!
•   Police again get it in the neck for not objecting
•   Finally we get to the crux – “does anyone know if property prices will go up or down”, ...more hilarity from the floor...they like a laugh these folks. Statement from top table again which ignores all studies where not a single one has shown a negative effect on house prices for similar developments, and a comment from the floor that it’s not like for like, elsewhere it’s Wembley, or Man City, but this is Aberdeen, there’s no attraction to them being on your doorstep!
•   Human Rights – oh yes, one of the highlights, why has no-one brought up the human rights violations of having this stadium in your locality, where are the human rights groups camping out on the site?

Next up were the two MSPs
•   Alex Burnett encouraged the room to concentrate on possible alternative sites. If this is the only possible location, Dons will have a better chance of getting this passed.
•   Mike Rumbles encouraged the room not to write to him (I can understand this, he doesn’t like communicating with his constituents-  from personal experience), and stated that he thinks it’s outrageous and perverse that Westhill/Aberdeenshire has no say in this development and this is simply wrong.  OK Mr Rejected at the ballot box list MP!! Irony not your strong point.

Meeting closed with a dig at the press, especially Aberdeen journals for mis-quoting them and being unfair, and supporting the Dons. The young reporter in front of me is shaking his head at this. I made sure as I left to point out that there may be 320 in the room, but it wasn’t all NKS/NO people. He gave me a wink, the little devil. 

And that was it, I took one of their pledge leaflets as I was leaving, and threw it in the bin outside. I’ve probably missed a bit or two, but you get the gist.

They are very well organised, and really know their planning and legal stuff now, what they don’t know, or are being deliberately disingenuous to the assembled crowd is what a modern game of football and football stadium is all about, they want to paint a grim picture, and the assembled mob loved it. 
 

[Pie Of The Month]

7 minutes ago, fatshaft said:

Meeting closed with a dig at the press, especially Aberdeen journals for mis-quoting them and being unfair, and supporting the Dons. The young reporter in front of me is shaking his head at this. I made sure as I left to point out that there may be 320 in the room, but it wasn’t all NKS/NO people. He gave me a wink, the little devil. 

And that was it, I took one of their pledge leaflets as I was leaving, and threw it in the bin outside. I’ve probably missed a bit or two, but you get the gist.
 

I've no idea why I tortured myself by reading all of those 'minutes' but the quoted above in particular, fucking hell.  Patter.

[fatshaft]

Just now, Pie Of The Month said:

I've no idea why I tortured myself by reading all of those 'minutes' but the quoted above in particular, fucking hell.  Patter.

Have a pie 

[Pie Of The Month]

3 minutes ago, fatshaft said:

Have a pie 

^ ^ ^ Author of the minutes found.

[EdTheDuck]

48 minutes ago, strichener said:

How many of these are actual scare stories from residents rather than scare stories attributed to residents by AFC and supporters of Kingsford?  Did you hear the one about Pittodrie managing to drive away supporters to the degree that has NEVER been done before?  Or how about Kingsford being the ONLY option?  Nope?  I am sure you must have heard about AFC having to relocate their European games to the central belt!

If you want to see genuine, well thought out concerns and criticism of the AFC bullshit then I would direct you to both the Westhill and Kingswells community councils responses.  No scare-mongering and very pertinent questions over the use of different numbers when arguing different points.

The hysteria emanating from Pittodrie is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. All of it including historical hysterical such as “It has to be Loirston or we’re doomed”, “Rangers must be in the SPL or we’re doomed”, “it has to be a 10 team SPL or we’re doomed” and “it has to be 12-12-18 or we’re doomed”.  In the event that Kingsford looks like it may be knocked back I fully expect proclamations from the boardroom that there is a super-volcano under the main stand and a nest of giant Killer Bees in the rafters.

Everything coming from the residents of Westhill and Kingswells is unadulterated, damned lies.

BTW, the current match day experience is so bad fans are abandoning Pittodrie by the thousand (average league attendance currently up 25% on same point last season)

It doesn’t help, of course, when there are so many chumps buying this shite and not just swallowing it wholesale

but broadcasting it like they're Moses descending from Mount Sinai with the Word of God