The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

[Iain]

1 hour ago, Nelson said:

I don’t really see what sacking Bullen achieves at this point.  Would only add more instability with yet another caretaker period for Dave White than another period of trying to get a new manager settled in.  We’d be better advised to focus on getting the new midfielders up to speed and trying to find another striker.  If the new guys turn out to be sub standard and we stick with Rose and McKenzie up front, I think we’re doomed whoever is in charge.

The quicker you change manager the better the chance a new guy can make a difference before it's too late. Speaking generally, not saying Bullen should be fired.

[diegomarahenry]

Charlie Mulgrew has retired from football. One of the frees we can thankfully tick off the list. 

Fletcher
McCarthy
Wotherspoon
MacKay-Steven
Jakubiak
Snodgrass
Mulgrew
 

Edited September 5, 2023 by diegomarahenry

[Iain]

Might be a good manager though

[Guest]

1 hour ago, diegomarahenry said:

There are two ways to look at it, you continue with Bullen, hoping that he turns a corner and gets a tune out of the players he has and this happens before we are relegated or miss out on a promotion playoff place but you would potentially write off the season in Q1 because you persevered with someone who clearly isn't up to the job. 

Or, you bring someone in with fresh ideas that will change thins up early enough in the season to make their mark on the squad before the January window, putting us in a healthier place for next season. But potentially recruiting someone with a load of ideas that don't really come off and you end up having a turgid season anyway.  

First off, Bullens record would suggest he's very much up to the job and secondly who is this guy we're bringing in who will magically turn us into a top side, playing great football and challenging United for the title ??

I really am interested to know.....

[Guest]

In real life, I don't actually know anyone who thinks Bullen should be sacked. Of course that may change over the course of the next 4 or 5 weeks if results don't improve, however up until now the results have gone pretty much as expected with the exception of the Morton match where we basically failed to compete for the last 35 mins.

The bottom line is that Murphy, Murdoch and Dempsey would all be starters so losing the Midfield two basically forced our hand in the transfer window, time will tell if the recruitment is right or not but I'm assuming that was the best available within the budget that we had to spend.

As I've said on countless occasions, things aren't wonderful just now but they're far from the disaster that many are painting.

[No_Problemo]

7 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

First off, Bullens record would suggest he's very much up to the job and secondly who is this guy we're bringing in who will magically turn us into a top side, playing great football and challenging United for the title ??

I really am interested to know.....

Yet - but it appears to be coming. 

You lose the argument when you start to use hyperbole around challenging United for the title - literally no one is asking for that. 

Secondly to play great football, you bring in a manager who shows that he knows how to implement a possession based attacking style. 

[Guest]

Just now, No_Problemo said:

Yet - but it appears to be coming. 

You lose the argument when you start to use hyperbole around challenging United for the title - literally no one is asking for that. 

Secondly to play great football, you bring in a manager who shows that he knows how to implement a possession based attacking style. 

Again though, what makes you think that this is what all of the support actually want ?? I know loads of people who detest the playing out from the back and sideways passing stuff that happens regularly at our level, Raith Rovers last year being a prime example of playing "the right way" but it getting you absolutely nowhere except in a relegation battle.

Ultimately it's about winning games, Bullen proved last year that his team could achieve that and as far as I'm concerned nothing has changed in this regard and once we have a fully fit squad I'm sure we'll return to winning ways.

[No_Problemo]

1 minute ago, WATTOO said:

Again though, what makes you think that this is what all of the support actually want ?? I know loads of people who detest the playing out from the back and sideways passing stuff that happens regularly at our level, Raith Rovers last year being a prime example of playing "the right way" but it getting you absolutely nowhere except in a relegation battle.

Ultimately it's about winning games, Bullen proved last year that his team could achieve that and as far as I'm concerned nothing has changed in this regard and once we have a fully fit squad I'm sure we'll return to winning ways.

I don’t know that at all, if people have enjoyed the football since around December I don’t know what to say though - possession football absolutely doesn’t need to be constantly passing sideways, in fact I would say that’s a shite version of it. There isn’t anything wrong with being a bit more direct at times and playing off someone, but there’s a big difference between that and just firing it up the park as soon as you get it. You need to be able to do both IMO. Our lack of control of games last season was also a huge factor in the second half of the season. 

Raith’s issue last season was the lack of the right players to complement the style, they are showing this season what that style can do with the right players. 

We currently have one player due back in the next couple of weeks, so we’ll be waiting a while for a fully fit squad!

[diegomarahenry]

20 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

First off, Bullens record would suggest he's very much up to the job and secondly who is this guy we're bringing in who will magically turn us into a top side, playing great football and challenging United for the title ??

I really am interested to know.....

I posed two scenarios as hypothetical rather than facts or opinions 

[Iain]

The biggest indictment of the way Bullen's teams play is that people who have literally spent years or decades watching Ayr United find it unacceptable. It's not people who are coming from watching Barcelona or Brighton.

 The proof is in the attendances.

[UpInTheAyr]

The football and tactics are dire to watch, have been for a while, fully fit squad or not. I wouldn't sack him and I don't think the thought has even registered with Mathie or Smith. The best we can hope for under him this season is some stability and grinding out points here and there to finish around 6th or 7th I think.

[Nelson]

I think part of the problem is that Mathie’s well intentioned enthusiasm (particularly at the vision night) maybe raised expectations about where we actually are at the moment.  Older fans will remember Bill Barr ploughing his own money into signing players who were miles ahead of anything we could afford if the club was standing on its own two feet, and I think the impression was inadvertently given that we had ownership that was prepared to do something similar now.  

But in fairness to Dave Smith, he was always clear that he wanted to invest in infrastructure that would grow the revenue base of the club which would in time allow us to compete at the right end of the championship.  The fans that remember Barr will remember that there was absolutely no legacy left by the fortunes he threw at wages and transfer fees (quite the opposite), and it seems that Smith does too.  

Expectations were then fuelled even more by one transformational signing that lifted a pretty mediocre group of players to our highest finish in over twenty years.  When the club repeatedly said that this put them way ahead of their “plan”, I don’t think they were kidding.

I personally think that’s why there’s an odd discontent about the support.  It’s not like we haven’t been terrible before or even relegated.  I think it’s that disconnect between the (longer term) aspirations touted by Mathie and the reality of seeing players like Adeloye, McInroy and Mullin disappearing off to direct rivals because we can’t afford to financially compete, while we’re standing watching dross like McKenzie and McAliister.

[GaryMc93]

I think the argument that people care less about performances as long as results are good only carries so far. 

For some people that might be something that you'd reflect on at the end of season. However on a game to game basis does shutting up shop with 30 minutes left against Inverness make your fair weather fans want to return or having 2 shots against Dundee United offer fans encouragement for the next home game. I don't think it does but the challenge is getting the balance right, which falls to Bullen.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Nelson said:

I think part of the problem is that Mathie’s well intentioned enthusiasm (particularly at the vision night) maybe raised expectations about where we actually are at the moment.  Older fans will remember Bill Barr ploughing his own money into signing players who were miles ahead of anything we could afford if the club was standing on its own two feet, and I think the impression was inadvertently given that we had ownership that was prepared to do something similar now.  

But in fairness to Dave Smith, he was always clear that he wanted to invest in infrastructure that would grow the revenue base of the club which would in time allow us to compete at the right end of the championship.  The fans that remember Barr will remember that there was absolutely no legacy left by the fortunes he threw at wages and transfer fees (quite the opposite), and it seems that Smith does too.  

Expectations were then fuelled even more by one transformational signing that lifted a pretty mediocre group of players to our highest finish in over twenty years.  When the club repeatedly said that this put them way ahead of their “plan”, I don’t think they were kidding.

I personally think that’s why there’s an odd discontent about the support.  It’s not like we haven’t been terrible before or even relegated.  I think it’s that disconnect between the (longer term) aspirations touted by Mathie and the reality of seeing players like Adeloye, McInroy and Mullin disappearing off to direct rivals because we can’t afford to financially compete, while we’re standing watching dross like McKenzie and McAliister.

Good post and probably is pretty close to exactly what's going on.

Although I'm pretty positive about things, I do agree that McAllister and McKenzie should not be in a starting 11 which has any aspirations of moving forward / gaining promotion and although I like McGinty for what he is, I also would like to see us try and play out from the back in order to play to the strengths of guys like Chalmers, McGeady, Rose, Amartey and Murphy when fit.

Mathie's job is also about promoting the club so you can't really blame him when he talks things up, however he has also always acknowledged that we ARE ahead of where we thought we'd be, as has Bullen.

Assuming our Midfield guys settle and prove good enough then I really see no reason why we can't at least be competitive this season but it's just a case of sticking with them for the next few weeks and see where that takes us, if there's no improvement in results and we're not creating much then I'm pretty sure things will take care of themselves on the Managerial front, one way or another.

[diegomarahenry]

Since October, we went on a run of winning ugly and salvaging draws, Bullen said at the time that it was the mark of a good team. That caught up with us in Q3. The cracks started to show in Q2 that we were one dimensional. Teams handled Dipo better for the most part and we had nothing in reserve as a plan B. 

Q3, Dipo had his head turned and we were dreadful, rallying slightly in Q4. 

If we had finished 5th and had the start we have had, I don't think too many people would be on the fence about a change being needed. Bullen has a lot to thank McKenzie for. 

He says that they are going to work with the defenders on their concentration during games, something that should have been at the forefront of his mind at some point during the play-offs. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, diegomarahenry said:

Since October, we went on a run of winning ugly and salvaging draws, Bullen said at the time that it was the mark of a good team. That caught up with us in Q3. The cracks started to show in Q2 that we were one dimensional. Teams handled Dipo better for the most part and we had nothing in reserve as a plan B. 

Q3, Dipo had his head turned and we were dreadful, rallying slightly in Q4. 

If we had finished 5th and had the start we have had, I don't think too many people would be on the fence about a change being needed. Bullen has a lot to thank McKenzie for. 

He says that they are going to work with the defenders on their concentration during games, something that should have been at the forefront of his mind at some point during the play-offs. 

The first half of last season our work rate and general movement was much better, however our levels definitely dropped in the final third of the season for whatever reason ??

[Nelson]

Just now, WATTOO said:

Good post and probably is pretty close to exactly what's going on.

Although I'm pretty positive about things, I do agree that McAllister and McKenzie should not be in a starting 11 which has any aspirations of moving forward / gaining promotion and although I like McGinty for what he is, I also would like to see us try and play out from the back in order to play to the strengths of guys like Chalmers, McGeady, Rose, Amartey and Murphy when fit.

Mathie's job is also about promoting the club so you can't really blame him when he talks things up, however he has also always acknowledged that we ARE ahead of where we thought we'd be, as has Bullen.

Assuming our Midfield guys settle and prove good enough then I really see no reason why we can't at least be competitive this season but it's just a case of sticking with them for the next few weeks and see where that takes us, if there's no improvement in results and we're not creating much then I'm pretty sure things will take care of themselves on the Managerial front, one way or another.

It’s such a thin line.  Promoting the club is one thing, but there is always the danger of over promising and under delivering.  When Mathie talked about winning a cup and open top buses, he clearly saw that as a legitimate aspiration that could happen St Johnstone style many years down the line after a lot of careful brick by brick building behind the scenes.  Football fans being what we are, we perhaps thought all this was something that would be happening in the immediate future, and now feel like we’ve been deceived somehow, which I think is grossly unfair.  The fact is Smith is financing a £2m new stand which will stand the club in good stead for decades to come.  For all the catty comments from some at times, the Hub is an excellent facility as well.  

I’m unconvinced by Bullen, but I do feel that all the general discontent about where we thought we’d be but aren’t is now being directed at him.  That a decent manager would somehow have that group of players flying high.  I suppose questions persist about his level of responsibility over some poor recruitment, but personally I think we’d be better giving him the chance to stitch a new midfield together, hopefully with the addition of new striker.  I just don’t see tipping everything upside down by firing him at this stage is doing anything but throwing fuel on our problems.  Sacking Kerr seemed like a great idea, until we realised his replacement would be either Hopkin or McIntyre…

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Nelson said:

It’s such a thin line.  Promoting the club is one thing, but there is always the danger of over promising and under delivering.  When Mathie talked about winning a cup and open top buses, he clearly saw that as a legitimate aspiration that could happen St Johnstone style many years down the line after a lot of careful brick by brick building behind the scenes.  Football fans being what we are, we perhaps thought all this was something that would be happening in the immediate future, and now feel like we’ve been deceived somehow, which I think is grossly unfair.  The fact is Smith is financing a £2m new stand which will stand the club in good stead for decades to come.  For all the catty comments from some at times, the Hub is an excellent facility as well.  

I’m unconvinced by Bullen, but I do feel that all the general discontent about where we thought we’d be but aren’t is now being directed at him.  That a decent manager would somehow have that group of players flying high.  I suppose questions persist about his level of responsibility over some poor recruitment, but personally I think we’d be better giving him the chance to stitch a new midfield together, hopefully with the addition of new striker.  I just don’t see tipping everything upside down by firing him at this stage is doing anything but throwing fuel on our problems.  Sacking Kerr seemed like a great idea, until we realised his replacement would be either Hopkin or McIntyre…

That's pretty much exactly where I am on things also.

[Dauntless]

2 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

That's pretty much exactly where I am on things also.

Me to . The club is moving forward to football team will follow .

[United1973]

1 hour ago, WATTOO said:

In real life, I don't actually know anyone who thinks Bullen should be sacked. Of course that may change over the course of the next 4 or 5 weeks if results don't improve, however up until now the results have gone pretty much as expected with the exception of the Morton match where we basically failed to compete for the last 35 mins.

The bottom line is that Murphy, Murdoch and Dempsey would all be starters so losing the Midfield two basically forced our hand in the transfer window, time will tell if the recruitment is right or not but I'm assuming that was the best available within the budget that we had to spend.

As I've said on countless occasions, things aren't wonderful just now but they're far from the disaster that many are painting.

How good have the results been and performances since Christmas?