The Queen's Park 2018-19 Thread

[an86]

30 minutes ago, Ben Reilly said:

At the last home game some of the guys I sit with were discussing the differences between life under Mark compared with Gus. We reckoned that under Gus we probably would grind out a few more results, but the football and attacking setup under Mark is more entertaining to watch. As for which we prefer, that's much harder to answer. Are results more important than entertainment? some would definitely argue they are, and that a win is a win no matter how it looks. Personally I like the formation we are playing and think it suits the current squad. You never felt there was a 7-1 win under Gus, but now you feel that on a good day when everything clicks, there is always that chance. We just need more of those days.
If Roberts has a close season to bring in some of his own guys to suit the way he wants to play, would that lead to better results next season? I don't know, and I probably have more questions than answers there.

The only evidence we have of his transfer abilities is Alan Gow. I felt sure we'd utilise the loan market. I'd take a 1-0 win in every game between now and the end of time because winning is the best feeling in football. Winning in style is better, but I'd rather win ugly 1-0 with the buzz of victory than play well and be disappointed with a 2-2 draw. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by an86

[Hampden Diehard]

I think that we're under achieving. Not sure if it's the players or the coach, or if it's just momentum, which I'm a believer in.

I'd start playing the young guys, partly as they're more likely to be with us. Gow should be binned; a couple of incredibly outstanding passes followed by daftness. I'd have one of the young guys in definitely.

A few players have been tapped up. Nothing to be lost by dumping them.

[Ben Reilly]

The only evidence we have of his transfer abilities is Alan Gow. I felt sure we'd utilise the loan market. I'd take a 1-0 win in every game between now and the end of time because winning is the best feeling in football. Winning in style is better, but I'd rather win ugly 1-0 with the buzz of victory than play well and be disappointed with a 2-2 draw. 

Fair point about Gow being his only signing. The optimist in me thinks that Gow was a good idea on paper that just didn't work out. Bring in an experienced guy to help a young squad, however he hasn't been fit enough, and has been too selfish on the ball and too lazy/unfit off of it to really be helping the younger guys.
To be fair though, I realise I have been pretty critical of him, but he has shown flashes of what Mark obviously hoped to get from him, and we can't soley blame Gow for us not getting the results some of our performances have merited.

[an86]

20 minutes ago, Hampden Diehard said:

I think that we're under achieving. Not sure if it's the players or the coach, or if it's just momentum, which I'm a believer in.

I'd start playing the young guys, partly as they're more likely to be with us. Gow should be binned; a couple of incredibly outstanding passes followed by daftness. I'd have one of the young guys in definitely.

A few players have been tapped up. Nothing to be lost by dumping them.

He seems a nice guy, but one win in seventeen with this squad isn't good enough. The temptation for the committee may be to sway towards stability and keeping him on without proper discussion. I understand why they might wish to do that with all the turbulence off the pitch. 

However, the stakes are now enormous. They absolutely must have the discussion at the end of the season and have it from only a football perspective. If they do that and decide to give him a crack, then fair enough. Whatever we do is a gamble. Keep him on and it might not work, replace him and it might backfire. 

 

[an86]

3 minutes ago, Ben Reilly said:

Fair point about Gow being his only signing. The optimist in me thinks that Gow was a good idea on paper that just didn't work out. Bring in an experienced guy to help a young squad, however he hasn't been fit enough, and has been too selfish on the ball and too lazy/unfit off of it to really be helping the younger guys.
To be fair though, I realise I have been pretty critical of him, but he has shown flashes of what Mark obviously hoped to get from him, and we can't soley blame Gow for us not getting the results some of our performances have merited.

It was definitely worth a punt, but aside from the Berwick game and, I'm led to believe, the Stirling game, he's been poor. I don't know what he's like on the training pitch, but it's not working in games. Everyone can see it. 

Certainly not completely to blame for our run of form, of course. A lot of factors involved there. 

[Ben Reilly]

I think that we're under achieving. Not sure if it's the players or the coach, or if it's just momentum, which I'm a believer in.

I'd start playing the young guys, partly as they're more likely to be with us. Gow should be binned; a couple of incredibly outstanding passes followed by daftness. I'd have one of the young guys in definitely.

A few players have been tapped up. Nothing to be lost by dumping them.

I think under achieving sums it up, we've played some great football and just not got the results. The momentum is part of it, and if the strikers started putting away a few more chances the confidence goes up and the goals may start to come a bit more freely. Hopefully now we've come out the other end or a run against the "better' teams, and with little to no pressure with regards to league position, we can pick up a few results and build the momentum again.

It'll be interesting to see who stays and who goes at the end of the season, and a decent run towards the end may be enough to sway the undecided that it's worth hanging around for another crack at it next season.

[an86]

Another question to ask. Who has improved and who has regressed or gone sideways from earlier in the season? I think the regressers outnumber the improvers. That's a problem. 

[qpfc]

39 minutes ago, an86 said:

Another question to ask. Who has improved and who has regressed or gone sideways from earlier in the season? I think the regressers outnumber the improvers. That's a problem. 

Only ones that have improved over the season would be McLean and Mcgrory I'd say.

[Bring Your Own Socks]

I'm still a fan of Roberts' style but his blind faith in Alan Gow is just wrong and stretching my belief in Mark's decision making. That aside, for the first 30 mins today any neutral walking in would have picked the red team as the ones at the top of the league. We played very well at Peterhead and were outstanding at Elgin. So team selections and tactics seem to be okay.

Gow has been a passenger since day one. His only credible gigs were Berwick and second half at Stirling but the whole team were rampant at those times. I've defended Hawke and he's our top scorer but he could do so much more with a bit of aggression, essential for a striker. He had at least 3 good balls played into scoring positions today and took second prize in all of them. Very good in the air but, like Gow, he hangs back on the ground hoping for a defender's mistake rather than attacking the ball. In all 3 today he loitered behind a defender when running across the guy would have got him a clear chance.

And that's it for me. We've had a surge of good opportunities and shots at goal but with lightweight forwards the return has been poor. I count six games (actually five now) that were draws we should have won. And the irony is our coach played the game as a striker. We're just short of a goaltaker. Think Henderson, McAllister, Sutherland, Goodwillie. Any of these in our team and we'd be in the play-offs. The next five games is where we can realistically measure progress.

As for replacements? I think we are getting dangerously close to the time when nobody will apply for the QP head coach vacancy. Mark deserves a chance to build his own team next season and hopefully he'll see the rump of that team is already playing for him. Gow isn't one of them.

[an86]

8 hours ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

And that's it for me. We've had a surge of good opportunities and shots at goal but with lightweight forwards the return has been poor. I count six games (actually five now) that were draws we should have won. And the irony is our coach played the game as a striker. We're just short of a goaltaker. Think Henderson, McAllister, Sutherland, Goodwillie. Any of these in our team and we'd be in the play-offs. The next five games is where we can realistically measure progress.

As for replacements? I think we are getting dangerously close to the time when nobody will apply for the QP head coach vacancy. Mark deserves a chance to build his own team next season and hopefully he'll see the rump of that team is already playing for him. Gow isn't one of them.

I can't agree with that, particularly if you were counting the now 3-0 win over Clyde as a game we should have physically won. They should have had us encased in concrete long before East's equaliser and Dom's sitter. It's not just that we can't score, but that the standard of defending has dropped off the face of a cliff and the goals we're losing are extremely poor. 

Agree with you on the replacement issue, but physically winning one match in seventeen simply isn't good enough at League Two level and it's a results game. The squad we have isn't the best we've ever had, but it's better than that. If the committee decide to keep him on, I'll back him. However, he mustn't be kept on without serious discussion taking place. The stuff  taking place off the park is huge, but none of it exists without the stuff on it and we can't lose sight of that. 

[Bring Your Own Socks]

I can't agree with that, particularly if you were counting the now 3-0 win over Clyde as a game we should have physically won. They should have had us encased in concrete long before East's equaliser and Dom's sitter. It's not just that we can't score, but that the standard of defending has dropped off the face of a cliff and the goals we're losing are extremely poor. 
Agree with you on the replacement issue, but physically winning one match in seventeen simply isn't good enough at League Two level and it's a results game. The squad we have isn't the best we've ever had, but it's better than that. If the committee decide to keep him on, I'll back him. However, he mustn't be kept on without serious discussion taking place. The stuff  taking place off the park is huge, but none of it exists without the stuff on it and we can't lose sight of that. 

First up, seventeen games ago was the Peterhead home win. So the stats are 2 wins plus six draws, taking the Clyde result as it was. One of the losses was Connah's Quay. And let's not forget the horror spell when the defence was decimated. And we still don't have our experienced centre half back yet.

Of course we could go back to 22 games and say six wins and six draws. Statistically correct and a much better picture. Or we could say just one win and three draws in the last seven, taking the Clyde result as it was. Four of those games being against the four runaway champs/play-off favourites. That paints an even better picture.

If you must keep dragging it back to Gus please at least be balanced. They are two different characters as Ben Reilly explained with style and I'd remind you that when Gus adopted Gardner's squad his win ratio to the end of that season was worse than Mark's is at the moment. I'd also remind you that Gus left us, not the other way around. Perfectly entitled to and good luck to him.

Mark Roberts is the man now trying to help my favourite team get promoted again and that's where my loyalty lies. There are unique challenges for this role that many others wouldn't cope with. Aside of the Gow issue he's not done much wrong. His immediate challenge is to come to terms with his obsession with Gow, and in tandem get his strike force motivated. His longer term challenge will be to find better players in key roles, and that will be a challenge. The two goals yesterday, and Annan and Elgin make that clear. The lack of loanee this year is also a concern.

[an86]

8 minutes ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

If you must keep dragging it back to Gus please at least be balanced. They are two different characters as Ben Reilly explained with style and I'd remind you that when Gus adopted Gardner's squad his win ratio to the end of that season was worse than Mark's is at the moment. I'd also remind you that Gus left us, not the other way around. Perfectly entitled to and good luck to him.

Mark Roberts is the man now trying to help my favourite team get promoted again and that's where my loyalty lies. There are unique challenges for this role that many others wouldn't cope with. Aside of the Gow issue he's not done much wrong. His immediate challenge is to come to terms with his obsession with Gow, and in tandem get his strike force motivated. His longer term challenge will be to find better players in key roles, and that will be a challenge. The two goals yesterday, and Annan and Elgin make that clear. The lack of loanee this year is also a concern.

I don't think I've actually mentioned Gus, in this particular discussion, other than in the context that we changed mangers. You can't compare the 13/14 to the current situation  because that squad simply wasn't good enough for League Two and would probably have been relegated if the current system had been in place. If that had been the case MacPherson and anyone else sane, quite understandably, wouldn't have gone near the job in the January when it was already pretty much over. 

We have had injuries, a particularly bad run of them this season. However, there's no world, under any circumstance, in which this squad should be winning one or two games in seventeen when we're playing League Two football. None. It's not good enough. This isn't a brilliant squad, but it's certainly not a horrendous one either, certainly not close to the scale of the atrocity of *that* season. 

Everyone wants the best for the club and opinions will differ. However, if things don't pick up, a serious discussion on the future of Mark Roberts must be inevitable. We all want it to be better, but we also can't ignore just how bad a run this has been. 

[williebraveheart]

I think it is harsh to be questioning Mark at this time. I do not think that there should be any doubt that he will be the boss next season. I also think it is odds on that Gow will be away by then. He was worth a punt but it has not been successful, end of. Connaghs Quay followed by Raith Rovers knocked some stuffing out of the euphoria which had gone on before. I was guilty of getting caught up in it by actually believing we could make the playoffs. Realistically, considering we had no team a couple of weeks before the season start, that was Peter Pan thinking. The injuries, followed by stupid suspensions, to central defenders would have been difficult for any team to cope with considering the backup players were basically teenagers. Where did Nimmo go? Let us not forget Adam Martin who was coming into some form when he got crocked. We have had no continuity from week to week with a choice of first picks. Had we had that I do not believe we would be discussing this. My main concern is that we have not played with a natural striker virtually all season and we just do not have one. I would be playing Moore and East in every game until the end to give them as much experience as possible. Young Grant is another decent prospect. On the subject of who to keep and who to let go Gow is in a class of his own and everyone will have their own ideas on others. I would lose no sleep if Peters, Mortimer and Summers were not with us next season. Whilst not a wish I wonder if Gerry can keep up with us. I think the style that Mark has developed is fine and his formations in the main have made sense. I have no evidence to suggest the players do not like playing for him and team spirit looks good. I would have no desire to see us grind out constant 1-0 victories if we played like Connaghs Quay, for example.

[Bring Your Own Socks]

2 hours ago, williebraveheart said:

I think it is harsh to be questioning Mark at this time. I do not think that there should be any doubt that he will be the boss next season. I also think it is odds on that Gow will be away by then. He was worth a punt but it has not been successful, end of. Connaghs Quay followed by Raith Rovers knocked some stuffing out of the euphoria which had gone on before. I was guilty of getting caught up in it by actually believing we could make the playoffs. Realistically, considering we had no team a couple of weeks before the season start, that was Peter Pan thinking. The injuries, followed by stupid suspensions, to central defenders would have been difficult for any team to cope with considering the backup players were basically teenagers. Where did Nimmo go? Let us not forget Adam Martin who was coming into some form when he got crocked. We have had no continuity from week to week with a choice of first picks. Had we had that I do not believe we would be discussing this. My main concern is that we have not played with a natural striker virtually all season and we just do not have one. I would be playing Moore and East in every game until the end to give them as much experience as possible. Young Grant is another decent prospect. On the subject of who to keep and who to let go Gow is in a class of his own and everyone will have their own ideas on others. I would lose no sleep if Peters, Mortimer and Summers were not with us next season. Whilst not a wish I wonder if Gerry can keep up with us. I think the style that Mark has developed is fine and his formations in the main have made sense. I have no evidence to suggest the players do not like playing for him and team spirit looks good. I would have no desire to see us grind out constant 1-0 victories if we played like Connaghs Quay, for example.

I'd have gave you two greenies if I could for that post williebraveheart. Completely spot on. 

[an86]

I'd expect Hart, Roberts, McLean and Galt to go. I expect they could all pick up a few quid elsewhere. Great to have Galt back, but he's only back through circumstances outside of his control. Dare say Jambo could still get a decent offer as well.  Will be pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong. 

Gow, obviously, shouldn't be within a mile of Hampden next season unless he's in possession of a ticket for a Scotland game. As also mentioned, Peters hasn't really played a great deal, so I wouldn't expect him to return. We do have a lot of guys in the "can do a job" category, but not necessarily guys you'd be hanging your hat on every week. A squad full of them, actually. 

Wonder if McGeever and Burns are sick of travelling to Angus every other week?

Edited March 10, 2019 by an86

[the_bully_wee]

It is absolutely fine by me if QP fans are willing to give a manager with only miserable failure on his CV the chance to build a squad using pretty obscure means. I can't really be bothered looking up Roberts' points per game return but, even accounting for the extra two you were handed for nothing yesterday, I bet it would be enough to ordinarily make you relegation fodder when extrapolated across a full season. 

[Hampden Diehard]

We'd be ok if we played Clyde every week. Play off (to go up) certainties.

[an86]

3 minutes ago, Hampden Diehard said:

We'd be ok if we played Clyde every week. Play off (to go up) certainties.

Even if they pumped us, an administrative error would see us in League One. 

[the_bully_wee]

2 hours ago, Hampden Diehard said:

We'd be ok if we played Clyde every week. Play off (to go up) certainties.

If only it worked that way. Must be very, very galling seeing your fellow fans toasting a manager who has defeated only the worst Berwick team in generations since November.

[Chester Desmond]

16 hours ago, the_bully_wee said:

 I can't really be bothered looking up Roberts' points per game return but, even accounting for the extra two you were handed for nothing yesterday, I bet it would be enough to ordinarily make you relegation fodder when extrapolated across a full season. 

Being a sad c**t and also being very bored on a Monday morning I had a look and Queen's have taken 19 points from 21 games since Roberts took over in September (including the games as caretaker and counting the most recent Clyde game as a draw as it would be a bit much to claim it as a real win).  Four wins, seven draws and 10 defeats.  Over 36 games that would work out at around 33 points (seven wins, 12 draws and 17 defeats), which most seasons would result in a 9th or 10th place finish.  

Mitigating circumstances with injuries and suchlike of course, but when are there not mitigating circumstances one way or another?  Not saying that Roberts should be punted, but its a big summer ahead to avoid being out the league and out of Hampden in less than 18 months time.