What is the point of Labour ?

[tamthebam]

BFTD of the Cock and Balls Party is an upstanding Member of Parliament 

Depending on the hang of his trousers he is either on the hard left or the hard right

 

[BB_Bino]

9 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

Corbyn was a case of right politics, wrong man. A politician version of Mick Lynch may've suceeded.

I personally disagree, I think he wa she right man with the right politics which is why the Right Wing media did everything they could to discredit him and the Tories in the Labour Party did as much damage as they did on the inside because they feared the momentum (no pun intended) he was building within the working class and young in England and he was a threat to business and corporations.

People will laugh at me, but it’s only my opinion, but he’s the best PM we never had imho.

[AyrshireTon]

15 hours ago, orfc said:

Lib Dem / Labour

If no other option, I spoil the polling station

 

The Lib Dems have no identity.

Their Scottish branch bedded Labour up here for a sniff of power yet their bosses bent over for the Tories for the same thing in Westminster. 

They can't be trusted any more than the red or blue Tories.

[Granny Danger]

9 hours ago, BB_Bino said:

I personally disagree, I think he wa she right man with the right politics which is why the Right Wing media did everything they could to discredit him and the Tories in the Labour Party did as much damage as they did on the inside because they feared the momentum (no pun intended) he was building within the working class and young in England and he was a threat to business and corporations.

People will laugh at me, but it’s only my opinion, but he’s the best PM we never had imho.

Corbyn’s policies were mainly correct but he was a useless leader and would have been a disastrous Prime Minister.

[Fullerene]

17 hours ago, orfc said:

Lib Dem / Labour

If no other option, I spoil the polling station

Spoling your ballot paper would be one thing but spoiling the entire polling station seems a bit excessive.

[Granny Danger]

I assume the people that spoil their ballot papers then don’t complain about the government that is elected.

[aDONisSheep]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

I assume the people that spoil their ballot papers then don’t complain about the government that is elected.

It's funny, I assume the opposite.  People that have bothered to turn up and spoil their paper are stating that they don't consent to any of the above.  It's people that can't be ersed to turn up that acquiesce (IMHO).

 

[aDONisSheep]

Sadiq Khan showing more backbone than the entire Shadow Cabinet.

 

[Granny Danger]

3 minutes ago, aDONisSheep said:

It's funny, I assume the opposite.  People that have bothered to turn up and spoil their paper are stating that they don't consent to any of the above.  It's people that can't be ersed to turn up that acquiesce (IMHO).

 

Voting is picking the least worst option.  If you do that then that’s all you can do, if you don’t participate then you’re part of the problem.

[tamthebam]

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

I assume the people that spoil their ballot papers then don’t complain about the government that is elected.

There is the old anarchist slogan "It doesn't matter who you vote for, the Government always wins". 

 

[aDONisSheep]

22 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Voting is picking the least worst option.  If you do that then that’s all you can do, if you don’t participate then you’re part of the problem.

I understand your point of view, but if everyone turned up and spoiled their ballot, that would send a message that what politicians are offering isn't acceptable.  If you vote for 'least worst', then that doesn't tell anyone that you're unhappy with the options, it does the opposite, it tells whoever is 'least worst' that you think they're doing the right thing (which may well not be the case).

I'm a classic case in point.  I'm a Labour voter at heart, but I'm struggling with this labour party.  I desperately don't want the tories to win, but think that if I vote Labour, I'm actually giving them some form of approval (and I definately don't approve), their only attraction is that they may not be as bad as the Tories, does that really deserve my vote? 

Where do I vent my dissaproval if I feel that none of the parties represent my values any more?  I am currently swithering between, voting Labour (despite my deep reservations), Green (more aligned to my values, but not entirely) and spoiling my paper!  (current likelihood is 20%:45%:35%).  I am really struggling

[Granny Danger]

49 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

There is the old anarchist slogan "It doesn't matter who you vote for, the Government always wins". 

 

Which old anarchist said that ?

[AyrshireTon]

4 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Which old anarchist said that ?

The Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

5 hours ago, aDONisSheep said:

I understand your point of view, but if everyone turned up and spoiled their ballot, that would send a message that what politicians are offering isn't acceptable.  If you vote for 'least worst', then that doesn't tell anyone that you're unhappy with the options, it does the opposite, it tells whoever is 'least worst' that you think they're doing the right thing (which may well not be the case).

I'm a classic case in point.  I'm a Labour voter at heart, but I'm struggling with this labour party.  I desperately don't want the tories to win, but think that if I vote Labour, I'm actually giving them some form of approval (and I definately don't approve), their only attraction is that they may not be as bad as the Tories, does that really deserve my vote? 

Where do I vent my dissaproval if I feel that none of the parties represent my values any more?  I am currently swithering between, voting Labour (despite my deep reservations), Green (more aligned to my values, but not entirely) and spoiling my paper!  (current likelihood is 20%:45%:35%).  I am really struggling

I feel your pain, and I've agonised over what to do.  I'm a long-lapsed Labour voter who vowed after the Iraq invasion never to vote for them again.  I see nothing, absolutely nothing to alter that view; they may not be as repellent as the Tories but by God that's a low bar indeed.  In recent elections I've voted SNP but they have long strained my belief.

So what to do ?  I think of my granddaughters and what awaits them.  Post-Brexit UK is a basket case with Westminster a disfunctional cesspit, but there are bigger issues, two in particular - climate change and AI.  The latter we are in the lap of the gods, but we can at least exert pressure on the former, so I may well consider voting Green by way of a protest vote.  But I will vote.

[welshbairn]

7 hours ago, aDONisSheep said:

It's funny, I assume the opposite.  People that have bothered to turn up and spoil their paper are stating that they don't consent to any of the above.  It's people that can't be ersed to turn up that acquiesce (IMHO).

 

They could have a write in option instead of none of the above, so you could pick someone who's not standing, but you'd likely get more votes for Donald Trump or Tommy Robinson than anyone else. Spoiling your vote has multiple possible messages, you can't control the pencil or understand what you're meant to do, you're against the whole concept of democracy or just the particular system being used for canvassing preferences, you don't like any of the people or parties standing but can't be arsed standing yourself or joining with like minded people to find someone willing who represents your views. I don't get how that's better than the least worst option, even if it's an independent who has no chance but seems sound. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by welshbairn

[sophia]

8 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Voting is picking the least worst option.  If you do that then that’s all you can do, if you don’t participate then you’re part of the problem.

Vote leave to agree with £350m for the NHS and racists 

[Freedom Farter]

19 hours ago, aDONisSheep said:

Sadiq Khan showing more backbone than the entire Shadow Cabinet.

 

Stephen Pollard isn't impressed:

 

 

Who Stephen Pollard is:

[Fullerene]

20 hours ago, aDONisSheep said:

It's funny, I assume the opposite.  People that have bothered to turn up and spoil their paper are stating that they don't consent to any of the above.  It's people that can't be ersed to turn up that acquiesce (IMHO).

Spoilt ballots are sidelined by volunteers at the count who have no interest in the result.  Maybe some get reviewed to see if they might be okay but not many.

Nobody knows if it is some sort of protest or simply incompetence with basic instructions and nobody really cares.

I feel sorry for those who vote early, put an X in the correct box but then sign it as they always do.  Their vote has never counted.

[BMG Spider]

9 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

Stephen Pollard isn't impressed:

 

 

Who Stephen Pollard is:

Even if I hadn't read the headline comment about Sadiq Khan, reading that he writes for the Daily Express would be enough for me to think he's a complete dick, but jeez, reading those views - every line leaves you thinking he's more and more of a complete right wing cnut; heart posted missing

[aDONisSheep]

9 hours ago, Fullerene said:

Spoilt ballots are sidelined by volunteers at the count who have no interest in the result.  Maybe some get reviewed to see if they might be okay but not many.

Nobody knows if it is some sort of protest or simply incompetence with basic instructions and nobody really cares.

I feel sorry for those who vote early, put an X in the correct box but then sign it as they always do.  Their vote has never counted.

They both count and analyse spoilt votes, to make sure that they are indeed invalid. (This happens at all levels from Parish Council to General Elections). 

This is Beaconsfield’s by-election:

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by aDONisSheep