What is the point of Labour ?

[Antlion]

7 minutes ago, Jedi said:

And yet the concept of irony bypass with any questioning of the SNP met by 'but....but.....Labour.....but Brexit.....but......immigration'

Aye, bizarre that people might expect discussion about Labour’s repellant policies in a thread all about questioning Labour; I can see why you’d assume it should be about the SNP.

[Antlion]

7 minutes ago, sophia said:

That is quite the most fatuous offering I have read on here for quite some time.

If labour were unequivocal we most probably wouldn't be out in the first place.

From there labour lost it.

If you want to retain credibility, you don't pander to racists.

 

*Ahem* pay attention to the thread title, please. We’re not supposed to be discussing Labour’s pandering to racists, its meaningless promises to “make Brexit work”, or it’s manky approach to immigration. We’re supposed to be talking about the evil SNP. The clue’s in the title, for the love of Starmer.

[Guest Jedi]

In fairness I think the Simpsons GIF is actually the most detailed analysis we have had of SNP policy on here for some time.

Its a lazy assumption that everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist as well...while many no doubt did so out of racist motivation, can hardly apply that to nearly 17 million people.

And er, yeah in 'paying attention to the thread title' about 90% of my comment is about Labour policy and maybe 10% questioning the SNP

Edited October 28, 2022 by Jedi

[Antlion]

7 minutes ago, Jedi said:

In fairness I think the Simpsons GIF is actually the most detailed analysis we have had of SNP policy on here for some time.

 

No one’s stopping you producing your own, if you care to create a relevant thread. It’s as easy as using the “quote” button, and you’ve mastered that (sometimes).

Edited October 28, 2022 by Antlion

[Brother Blades]

20 minutes ago, Jedi said:

In fairness I think the Simpsons GIF is actually the most detailed analysis we have had of SNP policy on here for some time.

Its a lazy assumption that everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist as well...while many no doubt did so out of racist motivation, can hardly apply that to nearly 17 million people.

And er, yeah in 'paying attention to the thread title' about 90% of my comment is about Labour policy and maybe 10% questioning the SNP

Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist, but every racist voted for Brexit.

Whqt do you have to say about Keefs assertion that there is very little policy difference on immigration between the blue & red Tories? 

[Guest Jedi]

Meanwhile, Starmer has mentioned a 'manifesto ready to go'. Clearly the Tories are going to drag this out for another 2 years, and yes, Labour do need to be using the media to get policy across now.

[sophia]

17 minutes ago, Jedi said:

In fairness I think the Simpsons GIF is actually the most detailed analysis we have had of SNP policy on here for some time.

Its a lazy assumption that everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist as well...while many no doubt did so out of racist motivation, can hardly apply that to nearly 17 million people.

And er, yeah in 'paying attention to the thread title' about 90% of my comment is about Labour policy and maybe 10% questioning the SNP

Along with your 17m, it may have passed you by but there was an overwhelming rejection of the racist / exceptionalist view in this country.

Also, 90% of your comment is a copy and paste of labour flotsam.

How about your own thoughts?

[Guest Jedi]

2 minutes ago, Brother Blades said:

Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist, but every racist voted for Brexit.

Whqt do you have to say about Keefs assertion that there is very little policy difference on immigration between the blue & red Tories? 

The same as I have every time....if you can find a political party where you can agree with between 70-80% of their policies-you are doing well. Do I agree with trying to match Tory immigration policies? No (as said many times before). Though I think that working more closely with the EU on immigration, as Labour propose, and enabling Asylum seekers the right to employment in the UK (rather than shipping them off to Rwanda), as well as ensuring that children are able to both enter the UK, and stay with their families, is a departure from Tory policies. And 'sounding' more like the Tories in one area does not make them 'Red Tories'.

So, do Labour get 100% right on policy? Of course they don't. However I am with the 70-80% which I think they do.

[Guest Jedi]

6 minutes ago, sophia said:

Along with your 17m, it may have passed you by but there was an overwhelming rejection of the racist / exceptionalist view in this country.

Also, 90% of your comment is a copy and paste of labour flotsam.

How about your own thoughts?

Own thoughts? Rather than Nicola said it, so it's right/true you mean?

In posting about Labour policy I am doing so in agreement with the areas highlighted, and disagreement with the other parts which I would not be on board with. 

A full one third of SNP members are reported to have voted for Brexit....did they do so out of racist motivations, or were they still part of the exceptionalist view in Scotland?

Edited October 28, 2022 by Jedi

[sophia]

36 minutes ago, Jedi said:

 

A full one third of SNP members are reported to have voted for Brexit....did they do so out of racist motivations, or were they still part of the exceptionalist view in Scotland?

Probably.

And exceptionalist.

Wholly wrong, but crucially their thickness was in the minority. 

 

[Brother Blades]

15 hours ago, Brother Blades said:

Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist, but every racist voted for Brexit.

Whqt do you have to say about Keefs assertion that there is very little policy difference on immigration between the blue & red Tories? 

Genuine question, are you able to see the difference between independence supporters & people who are huge fans of the SNP in particular? 
I think the SNP have some genuinely decent social policies, but I see them as a route to a fairer & more reflective governance in Scotland, via our certainly more inclusive & left leaning electorate, which brings me to my second point. Why is everything comparing SNP to Tory/ Labour? Or more overtly SNP BAD! 
Will you vote Yes in any future referendum? 
If your answer to that question is you would vote for Independence, do you not see that (at present) voting SNP is the only vehicle we can jump aboard to show our disdain & differences between Scotland & Westminster? 
If your answer is no, you aren’t really a believer in socialist principles & are willing to go along with whatever government we have in Westminster because you are more interested in the union than you are in the prospect of truly realising your dream of a left leaning electorate actually being able to vote in a left leaning government. 
My last paragraph was my opinion, simple yes or no answers to my previous questions will suffice. 

[MazzyStar]

Lol

[Fullerene]

On the "Rishi Sunak" thread, Bezos and Amazon gets a mention.  On the "Normalise Far Right" thread, Musk gets a mention.  Here it is Gates.

Three men who have more money than the poorest 50% of Americans combined.

[Bad Wolf]

As previously stated on this thread, as someone who hasn't voted Labour since the 80s and will never do so again, I find it hard to imagine that my opinion of them can get any lower - and yet somehow it can, and does. Anyone who believes that there are "good" billionaires is an arrant simpleton, a moral vacuum, or both. 

[Guest Jedi]

On 29/10/2022 at 14:51, Brother Blades said:

Genuine question, are you able to see the difference between independence supporters & people who are huge fans of the SNP in particular? 
I think the SNP have some genuinely decent social policies, but I see them as a route to a fairer & more reflective governance in Scotland, via our certainly more inclusive & left leaning electorate, which brings me to my second point. Why is everything comparing SNP to Tory/ Labour? Or more overtly SNP BAD! 
Will you vote Yes in any future referendum? 
If your answer to that question is you would vote for Independence, do you not see that (at present) voting SNP is the only vehicle we can jump aboard to show our disdain & differences between Scotland & Westminster? 
If your answer is no, you aren’t really a believer in socialist principles & are willing to go along with whatever government we have in Westminster because you are more interested in the union than you are in the prospect of truly realising your dream of a left leaning electorate actually being able to vote in a left leaning government. 
My last paragraph was my opinion, simple yes or no answers to my previous questions will suffice. 

As an 'arrant simpleton' and 'moral vacuum', I have said several times that I both voted Yes in 2014 and would do so again in a future Ref. So, yes, I can see differences between Independence supporters (some of whom also vote Labour or Green) and massive fans of the SNP. My concerns with the SNP centre around not only their policies but also the lack of analysis or criticism of pretty.much anything they do in government in Scotland.As I have said as well, I also fear that they will shut out alternative visions of Independence and will continue to dominate the government of a post-Independent Scotland 

They may be the 'route' electorally to securing a future Ref, but to win that Ref you need to also have some people who would vote Labour, Green, even Lib Dem etc on board, not just SNP voters. 

[sophia]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

As an 'arrant simpleton' and 'moral vacuum', I have said several times that I both voted Yes in 2014 and would do so again in a future Ref. So, yes, I can see differences between Independence supporters (some of whom also vote Labour or Green) and massive fans of the SNP. My concerns with the SNP centre around not only their policies but also the lack of analysis or criticism of pretty.much anything they do in government in Scotland.As I have said as well, I also fear that they will shut out alternative visions of Independence and will continue to dominate the government of a post-Independent Scotland 

They may be the 'route' electorally to securing a future Ref, but to win that Ref you need to also have some people who would vote Labour, Green, even Lib Dem etc on board, not just SNP voters. 

The first bolded part might explain why someone might miss the absolute onslaught of partisan critique that is a daily fact of life.

I haven't absolutely dismissed the passing notion that you may very well be trolling. 

[Guest Jedi]

Trolling=any questioning of any SNP policy 

[Antlion]

12 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Trolling= whataboutery questioning of any SNP policy in a thread explicitly about Labour.

FTFY.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Antlion

[Guest Jedi]

13 minutes ago, Antlion said:

FTFY.

......while referring about 90% of comment to Labour....and about 10% whataboutery of the SNP.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Jedi

[Antlion]

6 minutes ago, Jedi said:

......while referring about 90% of comment to Labour....and about 10% whataboutery of the SNP.

Whatever encouraged you to arbitrarily decide that 10% (if it is even that low) was an acceptable level? Self-confessed whataboutery is still plain old, patently-obvious whataboutery.