What is the point of Labour ?

[StellarHibee]

7 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Or maybe he wants people on the right to believe his current chat is legit

Either he's the best actor in the world ever. Or he's simply one of them.

I know which one is considerably more believable.

[dirty dingus]

The Boy who cried Wolf. Starmer has broken so many promises and backtracked on so many issues as well as stabbing folk in the front and back that for anyone to say Sir Keir at Murdoch's Heel has a cunning plan to roll out some left wing utopia when/if he becomes PM need to give their collective heads a wobble. The guy is an establishment whore like so many ermine socialist that have come before him.

[GAD]

55 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Or maybe he wants people on the right to believe his current chat is legit

Either way he's a proven liar who can't be trusted on anything he says.

[Donathan]

9 minutes ago, GAD said:

Either way he's a proven liar who can't be trusted on anything he says.

So what's your solution then? Another five years of Sunak?

[GAD]

2 minutes ago, Donathan said:

So what's your solution then? Another five years of Sunak?

Well Starmer is promising exactly the same, so your solution is just to vote for him anyway in the hope he's lying?

[Granny Danger]

2 minutes ago, Donathan said:

So what's your solution then? Another five years of Sunak?

There is no solution.  It’s Tory or Tory Lite; the Tory Lite option will almost definitely be followed by five more years of a Tory government that will be more right-wing than the existing one.

 

[Highlandmagar]

3 minutes ago, Donathan said:

So what's your solution then? Another five years of Sunak?

It will probably be Starmer, but only because he is a fresh Tory for the electorate, rather than the morally bankrupt, corrupt real Tories.

[RuMoore]

7 minutes ago, Donathan said:

So what's your solution then? Another five years of Sunak?

Presumably the solution is to offer  nothing productive at all and label everything under the sun as Tory. 

It's really intellectual stuff.  

[GAD]

1 minute ago, RuMoore said:

Presumably the solution is to offer  nothing productive at all and label everything under the sun as Tory. 

It's really intellectual stuff.  

What is productive about voting for a proven liar who can't be trusted? What is highly intellectual about that?

[Donathan]

1 minute ago, GAD said:

Well Starmer is promising exactly the same, so your solution is just to vote for him anyway in the hope he's lying?

Let's dissect each of their five key missions

 

Sunak

1. Halve inflation - On the face of it, a good thing to have as a priority. The cost of living crisis is hitting us all and anything to stop prices spiralling out of control is a good thing. He's being outperformed by both the US and the EU on this but I largely blame a mix of Brexit and lockdowns for massively reducing our productivity without a matching reduction in wages. Tentative signs of improvement this week.

2. Grow the economy - No sign of this so far.

3. Reduce national debt - I understand the purpose here to not run up a huge debt and spook the markets like Truss did, but not really working with gilt rates still sky high.

4. NHS waiting lists - This is an absolutely key policy for me and one I'm glad to see the PM taking on. No progress so far though, they're at record levels.

5. Stop the small boats - I don't care about this.

 

Starmer

1. Highest sustained growth in the G7 - A lot more ambitious than Sunak just saying "grow the economy"

2. Make Britain a clean energy superpower - IMO the environment is a top 3 issue so it's encouraging to see Starmer putting this amongst his key pledges whereas Sunak ignored it

3. Build an NHS fit for the future - Far more impressive than Sunak just going for a short term reduction in waiting lists

4. Make Britain's streets safe - Nothing at all on street safety from Sunak.

5. Break down barriers to opportunity at every stage - Great for those of us that would like to see equal opportunities.

 

The only criticism of Starmer for me is that there's nothing on inflation and the cost of living. But I'd much rather have a PM focused on the environment, equal opportunities and making our streets safer than one that's just banging on about small boats and the national debt.

 

[RuMoore]

6 minutes ago, GAD said:

What is productive about voting for a proven liar who can't be trusted? What is highly intellectual about that?

I think describing everything you dont agree with as Tory is extremely lazy and if you follow this primary school level train of thought then you could describe the SNP, Labour and Tories as being very similar parties so it ends up being a pointless exercise. We need PR but as it stands that doesn't seem likely. 

Also basing your political decisions or beliefs on trust is a dangerous game. 

Who do you trust as a politician in the UK? 

Edited July 22, 2023 by RuMoore

[StellarHibee]

4 minutes ago, RuMoore said:

I think describing everything you dont agree with as Tory is extremely lazy and if you follow this primary school level train of thought then you could describe the SNP, Labour and Tories as being very similar parties so it ends up being a pointless exercise. We need PR but as it stands that doesn't seem likely. 

Also basing your political decisions or beliefs on trust is a dangerous game. 

Who do you trust as a politician in the UK? 

I'd like to know what it is about Keir Starmer's views which you agree and disagree with? As these agreements and disagreements much change for you on a near daily basis following yet another series of u-turns.

[RuMoore]

2 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

I'd like to know what it is about Keir Starmer's views which you agree and disagree with? As these agreements and disagreements much change for you on a near daily basis following yet another series of u-turns.

You'll need to be specific on his views and I can tell you what I agree with and what I don't. 

I think Keir has played a very good game when it comes to the media and the previous issues the Labour party struggled with.

He's moved the party into a position where it can win an election which isn't something we've had in a long time, very generally speaking I have a strong dislike for the Tories and the SNP so I see Labour as the most viable option for what we're stuck with. 

[GAD]

13 minutes ago, RuMoore said:

I think describing everything you dont agree with as Tory is extremely lazy and if you follow this primary school level train of thought then you could describe the SNP, Labour and Tories as being very similar parties so it ends up being a pointless exercise. We need PR but as it stands that doesn't seem likely. 

Also basing your political decisions or beliefs on trust is a dangerous game. 

Who do you trust as a politician in the UK? 

I've not done that. I've simply stated a fact.

[StellarHibee]

1 minute ago, RuMoore said:

You'll need to be specific on his views and I can tell you what I agree with and what I don't. 

I think Keir has played a very good game when it comes to the media and the previous issues the Labour party struggled with.

He's moved the party into a position where it can win an election which isn't something we've had in a long time, very generally speaking I have a strong dislike for the Tories and the SNP so I see Labour as the most viable option for what we're stuck with. 

And how does that position that he's moved the party into differ from the tories that you claim to dislike?

[RuMoore]

Just now, GAD said:

I've not done that. I've simply stated a fact.

If you insist...

Now tell me who you trust as a politician in the UK currently? 

[oneteaminglasgow]

1 minute ago, RuMoore said:

He's moved the party into a position where it can win an election

Again, I’m not trying to be a dick, but so what? If all that changes is the rosette on the guy imposing austerity, then what’s the fucking point? 

[GAD]

18 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Let's dissect each of their five key missions

 

Sunak

1. Halve inflation - On the face of it, a good thing to have as a priority. The cost of living crisis is hitting us all and anything to stop prices spiralling out of control is a good thing. He's being outperformed by both the US and the EU on this but I largely blame a mix of Brexit and lockdowns for massively reducing our productivity without a matching reduction in wages. Tentative signs of improvement this week.

2. Grow the economy - No sign of this so far.

3. Reduce national debt - I understand the purpose here to not run up a huge debt and spook the markets like Truss did, but not really working with gilt rates still sky high.

4. NHS waiting lists - This is an absolutely key policy for me and one I'm glad to see the PM taking on. No progress so far though, they're at record levels.

5. Stop the small boats - I don't care about this.

 

Starmer

1. Highest sustained growth in the G7 - A lot more ambitious than Sunak just saying "grow the economy"

2. Make Britain a clean energy superpower - IMO the environment is a top 3 issue so it's encouraging to see Starmer putting this amongst his key pledges whereas Sunak ignored it

3. Build an NHS fit for the future - Far more impressive than Sunak just going for a short term reduction in waiting lists

4. Make Britain's streets safe - Nothing at all on street safety from Sunak.

5. Break down barriers to opportunity at every stage - Great for those of us that would like to see equal opportunities.

 

The only criticism of Starmer for me is that there's nothing on inflation and the cost of living. But I'd much rather have a PM focused on the environment, equal opportunities and making our streets safer than one that's just banging on about small boats and the national debt.

 

But he's a proven liar who has changed policy numerous times based on who he's talking to and is currently backtracking on ULEZ as we speak. None if this can be taken at face value.

[RuMoore]

Just now, StellarHibee said:

And how does that position that he's moved the party into differ from the tories that you claim to dislike?

They're electable for a start...

[GAD]

Just now, RuMoore said:

If you insist...

Now tell me who you trust as a politician in the UK currently? 

Don't really trust any of them right now tbh, but with Starmer he has proven beyond any doubt he's a liar so is proven untrustworthy so deserves no benefit of the doubt.