oneteaminglasgow Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, houston_bud said: Glib? How so? Obama was interviewed last week and I thought his comment was an important one. I'm paraphrasing, he said that for this problem to be solved there needs to be an admission of it's complexity. I don't think that Starmer has an 'Israel right or wrong view'. I think he sees it, that he will soon be PM and his government will have to try and speak with the leaders of Israel as well as Fatah/PLO, so is being cautious. They're also not shrugging their shoulders, to me is seems there's a lot of semantics around 'ceasefire/humanitarian pauses' etc but presumably this stuff matters in terms of diplomacy. Maybe Starmer's approach is the wrong one, but again I go back to my point that the opinion that he's indifferent to the suffering, is not an opinion worth taking seriously. “Ethnic cleaning is bad” isn’t complex. I don’t think that Starmer is indifferent to the suffering, I think that he’s actively supporting it. If you have evidence to the contrary, I’d like to see it. Edited November 15, 2023 by oneteaminglasgow 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 1 hour ago, houston_bud said: Glib? How so? Obama was interviewed last week and I thought his comment was an important one. I'm paraphrasing, he said that for this problem to be solved there needs to be an admission of it's complexity. I don't think that Starmer has an 'Israel right or wrong view'. I think he sees it, that he will soon be PM and his government will have to try and speak with the leaders of Israel as well as Fatah/PLO, so is being cautious. They're also not shrugging their shoulders, to me is seems there's a lot of semantics around 'ceasefire/humanitarian pauses' etc but presumably this stuff matters in terms of diplomacy. Maybe Starmer's approach is the wrong one, but again I go back to my point that the opinion that he's indifferent to the suffering, is not an opinion worth taking seriously. Of course I agree that Keir Starmer is not indifferent to the suffering in Gaza, Israel and the West Bank. But unlike most of us he's actually in a position to influence things. Unfortunately however, instead of taking that Obama 'nuanced' judgement he immediately positioned the Labour Party four-square behind the familiar but failed policy of the UK and the USA. Apart from being a dispiriting knee-jerk response which ignores the humanitarian traditions of his party, it is to me also electorally incoherent as despite what the UK right-wing media may claim, opposition to what the IDF is currently under instruction from the Israeli Government to do in Gaza does NOT equate to hatred of Israel or Jews per se. At some point there has to be a negotiated peace in the region. A Starmer-led UK Government could be part of that process but he's not off to a good start, especially with the Palestinian and Arab elements, never mind a sizeable percentage of his own party and the UK electorate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 Starmer is a complete fucking shitebag. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 47 minutes ago, HTG said: Starmer is a complete fucking shitebag. He hasn't got any control of his party. Heading for a hung parliament. He should be chased 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 4 minutes ago, Highlandmagar said: He hasn't got any control of his party. Heading for a hung parliament. He should be chased What is it about Labour's consistent 20/25-point poll leads that makes you think Starmer is heading for a hung parliament? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 Just now, DrewDon said: What is it about Labour's consistent 20/25-point poll leads that makes you think Starmer is heading for a hung parliament? Two words - John Major. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 Just now, DrewDon said: What is it about Labour's consistent 20/25-point poll leads that makes you think Starmer is heading for a hung parliament? Because when he is put under the microscope of a general election he will crumble and be ripped apart. He is shallower than the shallow end of a swimming pool. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 Labour leader Keir Starmer has seen a big rebellion of eight shadow ministers – including Jess Phillips – from a total of 56 Labour MPs who voted with the SNP on an amendment to the king’s speech calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza. The rebels on the front bench included Phillips, Rachel Hopkins, Sarah Owen, Afzal Khan, Paula Barker, Naz Shah, Yasmin Quereshi and Andy Slaughter. Khan, Qureshi, Phillips and Barker have chucked it rather than waiting to be sacked, according to Guardian. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 2 minutes ago, Highlandmagar said: Because when he is put under the microscope of a general election he will crumble and be ripped apart. He is shallower than the shallow end of a swimming pool. There is nothing at the moment to suggest that this will happen, though - nor that the Tories would be able to take advantage of it, even if it did. This isn't me commenting on whether I agree with Starmer, but he has repeatedly demonstrated since standing for the Labour leadership that he is a very agile and capable political operator. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 1 minute ago, DrewDon said: There is nothing at the moment to suggest that this will happen, though - nor that the Tories would be able to take advantage of it, even if it did. This isn't me commenting on whether I agree with Starmer, but he has repeatedly demonstrated since standing for the Labour leadership that he is a very agile and capable political operator. Agile and capable? Really? He has just jumped onto to Tory policies. Not a man of conviction or capability for a Labour Party leader. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: Labour leader Keir Starmer has seen a big rebellion of eight shadow ministers – including Jess Phillips – from a total of 56 Labour MPs who voted with the SNP on an amendment to the king’s speech calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza. The rebels on the front bench included Phillips, Rachel Hopkins, Sarah Owen, Afzal Khan, Paula Barker, Naz Shah, Yasmin Quereshi and Andy Slaughter. Khan, Qureshi, Phillips and Barker have chucked it rather than waiting to be sacked, according to Guardian. Labour are an utter shambles. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Golden God Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 Finding out there’s a politician called “Andy Slaughter” cause he’s voting for a ceasefire is quite funny. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 I assume the branch office abstained? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 I take it Jess Phillips isn’t a friend of Israel anymore? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 1 minute ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: I assume the branch office abstained? Murray and Shanks both voted against. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 32 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: Murray and Shanks both voted against. I thought the whip was to abstain - Murray should be resigning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 4 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: I thought the whip was to abstain - Murray should be resigning. Ah sorry, no, they were abstentions. Actual no were limited to Tories, DUP and that w****r from Blackpool who lost the Tory whip. Full list here https://votes.parliament.uk/votes/commons/division/1666#ayes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 12 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: Ah sorry, no, they were abstentions. Actual no were limited to Tories, DUP and that w****r from Blackpool who lost the Tory whip. Full list here https://votes.parliament.uk/votes/commons/division/1666#ayes So the branch office followed orders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 2 hours ago, DrewDon said: This isn't me commenting on whether I agree with Starmer, but he has repeatedly demonstrated since standing for the Labour leadership that he is a very agile and capable political operator. Looking forward to your column in The Guardian tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orfc Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 Classic futile and stupid gesture from some Labour wonks Give it 12 months they could have had a real say in this and other foreign policy, except the likes of Jess Phillips would rather quit again in opposition (did it under Corbyn too). Classic 6th form gesture politician. -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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