Drug deaths in Scotland hit record high

[Sweet Pete]

1 minute ago, MONKMAN said:

My 2 best friends from when I was a kid are dead through drugs. From opposite ends of the social spectrum, both met the same fate. One of the boys came from a very wealthy family (one of his parents has held various high level government jobs), the other from a council estate.

Both seemed destined for a life of trouble from early teenage years.

One started taking heroin while still in my social circle in his late teens, but eventually drifted off. He’d always speak if I bumped into him up town, even in a smacked up state.

The other (wealthy) I hadn’t actually seen since our late teens. He died in his parents Edinburgh home while they were on holiday, they returned to find his body decomposing in the flat.

With Dumfries not being that large a place, I see a few junkies I was at school with that have spent the last 15 years in and out of prison.


Tragic really.

Aye the degradation standpoint doesn't necessarily ring true. There are always exceptions to every rule I suppose.

Guy I went to school with and was pals with in early to mid high school was from a well off area, happily married parents, lived in a house rather than a council flat, etc etc. But for some reason he always seemed to want to ingratiate himself with the neddier kids. After school he tried his hand at being a full blown tracksuited ned, then was sentenced to five years for dealing smack.

[Sweet Pete]

1 minute ago, ICTChris said:

Me before the stag weekend

Me on the stag weekend

That's just a photo of you making the wee one's bottle. That Cow & Gate powder gets everywhere.

[SamuraiJock]

These stats are from the registers office, but the NHS publish an annual report on drug related deaths as well. One just published in June at the link below, but it deals for the previous years deaths rather than the ones just confirmed. Lots of detail for the curious.

http://www.isdscotland.org/Health-Topics/Drugs-and-Alcohol-Misuse/Publications/

[Fifes Elite Force]

40 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Wait, what? When was happy hour? What bars did this?

Bars like Brio and Epoch back in the day from immediate memory. Folk used to also head out for a couple of pints in the pubs and head to places like Life or Jiggies around 9/10 for a hour or two to take advantage of the deals for B1G1F and then maybe head back to a couple of pubs before heading to whatever cesspit of a club until closing

Here in Edinburgh it used to be pubs like Henry J beans did 2 for 1 on pints or clubs like establishment used to open early (5 oclock) with 50p vodkas at 5pm.

It could just be a culture shift generally rather than linked. However, I did go down to Carlisle recently for a football game and the place was bouncing at around 6 oclock on a Saturday night, DJs on etc places are stowed and bouncers on every pub. reminded me a bit of the town from my youth. Never noticed any folk heading to the cuble for a quick snort, not to say my few hours of research prove anything 

We did also back in those days have to wear black trousers and a shirt to get in the ballroom so maybe its actually an improvement these days

Edited July 4, 2018 by Fifes Elite Force

[Granny Danger]

21 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said:

Portugal decriminalised drug use/possession years ago and started treating drug use as a health concern rather than a criminal offence, and now has one of the lowest percentages of drugs deaths per year (3 per million people) in Europe. Addicts are now referred to treatment programmes rather than charged for a criminal offence. "Legal high" use is virtually non-existent in Portugal, while such substances like synthetic cannabis and "bath salts" cause great physical and psychological harm and even deaths in the UK.

No-one ever choses to become addicted to a substance. Drug use is often a symptom of something that goes a lot deeper than merely taking drugs for "a buzz" . People who suffer from mental illness or childhood abuse, domestic abuse etc sometimes end up turning to drugs as a means of escaping reality.

That is a very well considered post.

I find it hard to have sympathy on an individual level for those involved in drugs, I have a lot more sympathy for the families (particularly children) and wider communities blighted by the problem.  However I do accept that there can be genuine tragedies that push folk towards drugs and addiction.

A more radical approach is long overdue; I was not aware of the Portuguese approach but it sounds like the sort of thing we need to try.

 

[The Moonster]

27 minutes ago, Sweet Pete said:

Alright then, how many people do you know who do coke on the reg? It's a lot. Now, if coke was suddenly legal, you'd soon find that the folk you know who don't do it regularly or at all would soon be into it, too. I'm certain of it.

I concede some more people will try it. If the outcome was more people using but less people dying, I would say that's a good thing. Surely when people stop dying we can concentrate more on the treatment and education side.

[Sweet Pete]

2 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I concede some more people will try it. If the outcome was more people using but less people dying, I would say that's a good thing. Surely when people stop dying we can concentrate more on the treatment and education side.

Only in a world where only one solution can be tried at a time. In an ideal world (which this isn't, because it's a fallacy) we'd be trialling a combined effort to tackle the multiple root causes. But I'm still not sold on the notion of full decriminalisation, regulation, taxation. Purely on a personal level I mean. It's all about opinions innit.

[The Moonster]

Just now, Sweet Pete said:

Only in a world where only one solution can be tried at a time. In an ideal world (which this isn't, because it's a fallacy) we'd be trialling a combined effort to tackle the multiple root causes. But I'm still not sold on the notion of full decriminalisation, regulation, taxation. Purely on a personal level I mean. It's all about opinions innit.

Aye, I'm not saying I'm right - I just think that the current system is a complete failure so time for a radical change. Even if it did turn out a disaster, the news stories would be fucking brilliant.

[GordonS]

On 04/07/2018 at 13:07, The Moonster said:

If alcohol was illegal you'd see a far higher number of deaths, mainly because people would make their own booze which could have any percentage of alcohol in it.

Would the number of people doing smack increase if it were legal? I'm not sure. I certainly don't have any incline to head down the shop for a bag, I'm not sure why many others would too. The way I see it, the war on drugs has failed. It's time for a new approach.  At the very least it should be decriminalised IMO, but I don't think that helps regulation. Education would be key in any legal/decriminalised system too.

I disagree, I think if alcohol was illegal there would be far fewer deaths, because most people would obey the law or wouldn't be able to get hold of enough, but a much higher proportion of those who drink would die. But it's impossible to know.

In Portugal they decriminalised drugs and use fell. But we're not Portuguese. When the UK imported French drinking laws in the hope of developing a French drinking culture, harmful misuse went through the roof. I think if we decriminalised of legalised drugs more people would use more drugs more often.

I think there's a strong case for legalising and regulating the manufacture of stuff like ecstasy and weed - nobody should be dying through ecstasy use, that's about contamination - but for harder stuff I have very, very strong doubts. We're Scottish and we'll rip the arse out of anything.

I agree the "war on drugs" has failed, but that doesn't mean going the other way is right either. Our misuse of all drugs - legal and illegal - is higher than in similar countries and I think tackling that is the bigger deal. Why do we make these choices?

[vikingTON]

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

When the UK imported French drinking laws in the hope of developing a French drinking culture, harmful misuse went through the roof.

That is complete and utter nonsense. 

[The Moonster]

3 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I disagree, I think if alcohol was illegal there would be far fewer deaths, because most people would obey the law or wouldn't be able to get hold of enough, but a much higher proportion of those who drink would die. But it's impossible to know.

You genuinely think if alcohol was illegal everyone would just stop drinking? Have you read anything on Prohibition? Any person with two brain cells would be able to make themselves a home brew and there'd be no way of police detecting it.  Making alcohol illegal was a massive failure and it's been a massive failure for other drugs too. Of that there is no dispute.

If decriminalising or legalising drugs isn't the answer, what is the solution? 

[GordonS]

1 minute ago, The Moonster said:

You genuinely think if alcohol was illegal everyone would just stop drinking? Have you read anything on Prohibition? Any person with two brain cells would be able to make themselves a home brew and there'd be no way of police detecting it.  Making alcohol illegal was a massive failure and it's been a massive failure for other drugs too. Of that there is no dispute.

If decriminalising or legalising drugs isn't the answer, what is the solution? 

Come on man, don't play that game. Did I say anything like "everyone would stop drinking"? Obviously lots would if it meant a possible criminal conviction and maybe losing their job too.

It's very easy to think "this isn't working, we need to do something different, here's something different, let's do that." It's possible, however unlikely you might think, that we could make things worse by tightening OR relaxing the laws on drugs.

Nobody knows the solution and anyone who claims they do isn't worth listening to. We're all guessing here. My own guess is that, like I said, making the use of softer drugs safer could help. But it's all connected to why we eat so badly, don't take enough exercise, drink so heavily, abuse drugs, all the rest of it. How do we change the culture of how we treat our own bodies? On food, Finland did it: https://www.theguardian.com/befit/story/0,15652,1385645,00.html 

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

Come on man, don't play that game. Did I say anything like "everyone would stop drinking"? Obviously lots would if it meant a possible criminal conviction and maybe losing their job too.

It's very easy to think "this isn't working, we need to do something different, here's something different, let's do that." It's possible, however unlikely you might think, that we could make things worse by tightening OR relaxing the laws on drugs.

Nobody knows the solution and anyone who claims they do isn't worth listening to. We're all guessing here. My own guess is that, like I said, making the use of softer drugs safer could help. But it's all connected to why we eat so badly, don't take enough exercise, drink so heavily, abuse drugs, all the rest of it. How do we change the culture of how we treat our own bodies? On food, Finland did it: https://www.theguardian.com/befit/story/0,15652,1385645,00.html 

I'm not trying to play any game here, "most people would obey the law" is what you said. I couldn't disagree more with that and the evidence lies with the examples already set in Prohibition.  It made more criminals, it made those criminals powerful and rich and it made the alcohol people were drinking of varying strength.

I'm not claiming to know the solution, but we have the example of decriminalisation in Portugal which appears to be having good results, excellent results in some areas - of course our culture is different but I would argue that Portugal's approach to drugs will be changing their attitude and culture towards them as well. If changing our culture is the solution (which I tend to agree with btw) then surely we need to consider the impact our laws have on that culture?

As for the article you've shared, could you surmise it for me?  Unfortunately I don't have the time to read that but I am interested.

[Oooooft]

On 04/07/2018 at 11:29, Crroma said:

Alcohol present in 10% of deaths. Weed in 0%

Any person over 18 can walk into a shop and buy enough booze to put themselves in a coma. And why wouldn't they?

How else do people get a break from the constant stress society puts on us through financial pressures, a horrible work life balance, glum weather and very little life prospects?

Still the rich men in suits will keep milking and squeezing till the wave crushes society.

Absolute shite.

 

Weed in 0%?

 

Lol.

 

RTA fatalities would include a large number oot their tits after a joint.

 

The stoners I know are a menace behind the wheel, more so in the Summer when the roads are clogged with camper vans.

 

I know the politzi are testing for it more but even then a workmate got done for a wee bit of coke the other week whilst sitting in his car.

Not even breathalysed never mind a drug test.

And 'yes' he had partaken of a line or 3 afore they rocked up.

[Cerberus]

The SNP.

 

 

[Peppino Impastato]

2 hours ago, Oooooft said:

Absolute shite.

 

Weed in 0%?

 

Lol.

 

RTA fatalities would include a large number oot their tits after a joint.

 

The stoners I know are a menace behind the wheel, more so in the Summer when the roads are clogged with camper vans.

 

I know the politzi are testing for it more but even then a workmate got done for a wee bit of coke the other week whilst sitting in his car.

Not even breathalysed never mind a drug test.

And 'yes' he had partaken of a line or 3 afore they rocked up.

You have any stats for that?  They test the blood of RTA victims so there will be stats. 

[Peppino Impastato]

1 hour ago, Cerberus said:

The SNP.

 

 

You're a bellend.  The SNP are the best government Scotland has ever had.

[Cerberus]

2 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

You're a bellend.  The SNP are the best government Scotland has ever had.

Incorrect.

[Peppino Impastato]

1 hour ago, Cerberus said:

Incorrect.

100% correct.  By a million miles.  Perhaps if you even lived in Scotland you'd have a clue what you're talking about.

[John Lambies Doos]

Using my s**t hot Excel-ing skills, it would seem that Dundee leads Glasgow if you look at the actual %age of the population:

Hardly surprising. Dundee's a shitehole