Drug deaths in Scotland hit record high

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

Better education. More police resources. Better intelligence. Stronger penalties for supplying and using. Stronger penalties for drugs-related crime.

All basic stuff but anathema to some.

Sounds like your groundbreaking technique is to do everything that we're already doing, just do it better.

[Tibbermoresaint]

1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Did a "junkie" mug you?

Not successfully.

[Tibbermoresaint]

Just now, The Moonster said:

Your solution is to continue with the current policy that is failing massively then. We'll end it there.

No, not really.

Just now, Dons_1988 said:

Sounds like your groundbreaking technique is to do everything that we're already doing, just do it better.

It's basic stuff. But it needs to be done better.

[Sergeant Wilson]

3 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

Not successfully.

I think we're getting to the root of the issue.

[Ross.]

5 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

It's basic stuff. But it needs to be done better.

A bit like your posts on here.

[Tibbermoresaint]

This poor victim. Obviously it isn't his fault he's a junkie and a thief. How can we help him?

 

https://www-dailyrecord-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/east-kilbride-drug-addict-jailed-17246869.amp?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQA#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailyrecord.co.uk%2Fnews%2Flocal-news%2Feast-kilbride-drug-addict-jailed-17246869

[ayrmad]

9 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

Better education. More police resources. Better intelligence. Stronger penalties for supplying and using. Stronger penalties for drugs-related crime.

All basic stuff but anathema to some.

Are you fucking joking, that's why we're in this mess.

[Tibbermoresaint]

Just now, ayrmad said:

Are you fucking joking, that's why we're in this mess.

No, we're in this mess because people take drugs.

[Derry Alli]

5 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

No, we're in this mess because people take drugs.

Have you never taken a drug in your life or if you have, are you admitting you're part of the problem? 

[renton]

1 minute ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

No, we're in this mess because people take drugs.

That's asinine in the extreme.

Addiction is primarily a health issue and within reason should be treated as such. People take drugs for a number of reasons, not least because of despair and social isolation. If you don't give people a way out, if you don't give them a reason to engage with society then don't be surprised when they keep digging deeper into that addiction. Some addicts will of course graduate into more and more serious crimes, most will end up in a cycle of petty crime and dependency. There is no one policy that can allieviate the issue in the entirety of the addict population, but we can help a lot more of them than we do, and that starts with stopping punishing them.

Some people in society are more vulnerable for whatever reason, some people in society will always need more attention, more resources applied to them to allow them to achieve a modicum of normality. It's the price we pay for a civilised society. 

We can reduce crimes from addiction, and we can reduce deaths due to addictions, but we won't do it by chucking them endlessly through the criminal justice system.

[Tibbermoresaint]

1 minute ago, renton said:

That's asinine in the extreme.

Addiction is primarily a health issue and within reason should be treated as such. People take drugs for a number of reasons, not least because of despair and social isolation. If you don't give people a way out, if you don't give them a reason to engage with society then don't be surprised when they keep digging deeper into that addiction. Some addicts will of course graduate into more and more serious crimes, most will end up in a cycle of petty crime and dependency. There is no one policy that can allieviate the issue in the entirety of the addict population, but we can help a lot more of them than we do, and that starts with stopping punishing them.

Some people in society are more vulnerable for whatever reason, some people in society will always need more attention, more resources applied to them to allow them to achieve a modicum of normality. It's the price we pay for a civilised society. 

We can reduce crimes from addiction, and we can reduce deaths due to addictions, but we won't do it by chucking them endlessly through the criminal justice system.

People are responsible for their own actions. Sometimes those actions have painful consequences. That's tough.

[Guest Moomintroll]

3 minutes ago, renton said:

That's asinine in the extreme.

Addiction is primarily a health issue and within reason should be treated as such. People take drugs for a number of reasons, not least because of despair and social isolation. If you don't give people a way out, if you don't give them a reason to engage with society then don't be surprised when they keep digging deeper into that addiction. Some addicts will of course graduate into more and more serious crimes, most will end up in a cycle of petty crime and dependency. There is no one policy that can allieviate the issue in the entirety of the addict population, but we can help a lot more of them than we do, and that starts with stopping punishing them.

Some people in society are more vulnerable for whatever reason, some people in society will always need more attention, more resources applied to them to allow them to achieve a modicum of normality. It's the price we pay for a civilised society. 

We can reduce crimes from addiction, and we can reduce deaths due to addictions, but we won't do it by chucking them endlessly through the criminal justice system.

Renton, there is no point trying to reason with this guy, he is an angry seething mess who just wants to fight everyone around this for reasons that I cannot ascertain.He should have been out of here last night for the disgusting personal attack he made on a poster, if we all ignore him he will eventually go back to the Dundee thread to continually accuse Biggie of being a racist & we can all go back to what passes for normality round here.

[The Gifted Sub]

No, we're in this mess because people take drugs.

Genuinely flabbergasted.

[Tibbermoresaint]

1 minute ago, Moomintroll said:

Renton, there is no point trying to reason with this guy, he is an angry seething mess who just wants to fight everyone around this for reasons that I cannot ascertain.He should have been out of here last night for the disgusting personal attack he made on a poster, if we all ignore him he will eventually go back to the Dundee thread to continually accuse Biggie of being a racist & we can all go back to what passes for normality round here.

Is it sanctimony hour? Already?

[Tibbermoresaint]

1 minute ago, The Gifted Sub said:

 

Genuinely flabbergasted.

 

What do you think causes the problems caused by people taking drugs?

[renton]

11 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

People are responsible for their own actions. Sometimes those actions have painful consequences. That's tough.

Of course there is personal responsibility, but we also each have a shared responsibility to each other. That's the foundation of every collective endeavour in human history, from the Church to the Nation State. The space between those two poles is a place where the vulnerable are liable to get crushed, and how we weigh those competing impulses says a lot about us. Indeed, the collective will is a control loop, designed to smooth out the peaks and dips caused by individual behaviour. People who land in a cesspit of their own making should be helped up as far as is possible not just for their sake but for our own. It's in our enlightened self interest to reduce their suffering because it leads to less overall suffering in society and in terms of resources spent.

There is evidence based approaches that bare this out. In the face of that, to want to continue to stomp on these people is not a reasoned judgement on the efficacy of competing responses but a moral judgement based on your revulsion for them.

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by renton

[Dons_1988]

Tibbermoresaint is absolutely right, we'd be a lot better off if people just stopped doing all the things that causes problems in the world.

[Tibbermoresaint]

2 minutes ago, renton said:

Of course there is personal responsibility, but we also each have a shared responsibility to each other. That's the foundation of every collective endeavour in human history, from the Church to the Nation State. The space between those two poles is a place where the vulnerable are liable to get crushed, and how we weigh those competing impulses says a lot about us. Indeed, the collective will is a control loop, designed to smooth out the peaks and dips caused by individual behaviour. People who land in a cesspit of their own making should be helped up as far as is possible not just for their sake but for our own. It's in our enlightened self interest to reduce their suffering because it leads to less overall suffering in society and in terms of resources spent.

There is evidence based approaches that bare this out. In the face of that, to want to continue to stomp on these people is not a reasoned judgement on the efficacy of competing responses but a moral judgement based on your revulsion for them.

 

Absolutely we have a shared responsibility to each other. Part of that is treating ourselves and others with respect, which means not being a junkie. 

[Tibbermoresaint]

4 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Tibbermoresaint is absolutely right, we'd be a lot better off if people just stopped doing all the things that causes problems in the world.

At last 

[The Moonster]

4 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

This poor victim. Obviously it isn't his fault he's a junkie and a thief. How can we help him?

Nobody has ever said that junkies are blameless. 

3 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

No, we're in this mess because people take drugs.

You might just be the biggest moron on this site.