Pyramid 2019/2020

[ian44wood]

IMO it wouldn't be fair on the clubs that moved last season to have to go through another conference type set up.

If the rest of the east juniors now decide they want to move then they should start at the bottom. 

[Raydale Grannie]

I thought the idea of juniors joining EoS was for teams wishing to be part of the pyramid, therefore needing licensed before promotion can be gained. As it stands just now how many clubs in the running for top five spots are licensed, good chance the eventual Champions won't be so no promotion. As it takes so long to become licensed it could be like this for a few seasons. Then as well some junior clubs are seemingly against the idea so why are they being pushed into pyramid when there is no guarantee of even one of them getting a licence. The offer was open to all to join EoS so I don't see why such as a Tayside league should be on a par with EoS premier division. 

[FairWeatherFan]

11 minutes ago, Raydale Grannie said:

I thought the idea of juniors joining EoS was for teams wishing to be part of the pyramid, therefore needing licensed before promotion can be gained. As it stands just now how many clubs in the running for top five spots are licensed, good chance the eventual Champions won't be so no promotion. As it takes so long to become licensed it could be like this for a few seasons. Then as well some junior clubs are seemingly against the idea so why are they being pushed into pyramid when there is no guarantee of even one of them getting a licence. The offer was open to all to join EoS so I don't see why such as a Tayside league should be on a par with EoS premier division. 

BSC Glasgow first senior season 2014/15 and licenced by their second season 2015/16.

Cumbernauld Colts first senior season 2015/16 season and licenced by their second season 2016/17.

Kelty Hearts first senior season 2017/18 and licenced by their second season 2018/19.

Getting a licence in a single season can be done and has been shown to be done as above. The licencing embargo hasn't helped matters for those moving across to the EoS this year, but there's enough guidance out there that clubs will know what to have begun working on. With the embargo now lifted i'm sure there will be a decent number of clubs that will get licenced by next season.

Current licencing standings as far as i'm aware are:

[Burnie_man]

I thought the idea of juniors joining EoS was for teams wishing to be part of the pyramid, therefore needing licensed before promotion can be gained. As it stands just now how many clubs in the running for top five spots are licensed, good chance the eventual Champions won't be so no promotion. As it takes so long to become licensed it could be like this for a few seasons. Then as well some junior clubs are seemingly against the idea so why are they being pushed into pyramid when there is no guarantee of even one of them getting a licence. The offer was open to all to join EoS so I don't see why such as a Tayside league should be on a par with EoS premier division. 

Linlithgow are already Licenced and I'm fairly sure the likes of Bonnyrigg, Hill of Beath, Camelon and others haven't been sitting on their hands waiting for the embargo to be lifted, in fact I know they haven't.

[GNU_Linux]

I know Tranent, Haddington & Dunipace have done or are planning ground upgrades as well. I assume with an eye to licensing.

[FairWeatherFan]

Scott Campbell's column in the Sun basically rehashes last week's email from Ian Maxwell, but does have some new quotes to go with it.

Tom Johnston: "We are pleased with the way the meetings have gone. We had a mandate from clubs at our AGM last season to become part of the SFA pyramid and it seems that we are heading in that direction. There are a few hurdles to overcome and a lot of the detail has to be worked on - things like discipline, registrations and fixture scheduling - but hopefully none will prove insurmountable."

SFA Statement: "This is an important development allowing ambitious clubs progression from grass roots to the highest echelons of our professional game and improving standards."

[Burnie_man]

Scott Campbell's column in the Sun basically rehashes last week's email from Ian Maxwell, but does have some new quotes to go with it.

Tom Johnston: "We are pleased with the way the meetings have gone. We had a mandate from clubs at our AGM last season to become part of the SFA pyramid and it seems that we are heading in that direction. There are a few hurdles to overcome and a lot of the detail has to be worked on - things like discipline, registrations and fixture scheduling - but hopefully none will prove insurmountable."

SFA Statement: "This is an important development allowing ambitious clubs progression from grass roots to the highest echelons of our professional game and improving standards."

So no "we're in at tier 6 next season", those hurdles he speaks of might trip him up. No mention of agreement or consensus from the SFA either, just the usual bland statement.

[FairWeatherFan]

4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

40 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Scott Campbell's column in the Sun basically rehashes last week's email from Ian Maxwell, but does have some new quotes to go with it.

Tom Johnston: "We are pleased with the way the meetings have gone. We had a mandate from clubs at our AGM last season to become part of the SFA pyramid and it seems that we are heading in that direction. There are a few hurdles to overcome and a lot of the detail has to be worked on - things like discipline, registrations and fixture scheduling - but hopefully none will prove insurmountable."

SFA Statement: "This is an important development allowing ambitious clubs progression from grass roots to the highest echelons of our professional game and improving standards."

 

So no "we're in at tier 6 next season", those hurdles he speaks of might trip him up. No mention of agreement or consensus from the SFA either, just the usual bland statement.

Yeah, you would of thought that this was the perfect opportunity for the SFA to have released that ready made statement announcing it's a done deal

As for TJ he's basically repeating everything he said to the SJFA clubs back in his May email.

" Discussion took place on how integration would work in terms of Registrations, Discipline and Fixture Lists in particular.  We were unable to resolve all the issues at the meeting however it was agreed that the SFA Board be appraised of the progress at their next meeting in June.  N.B. None of the issues raised appeared insurmountable. "

[Auld Heid]

BSC Glasgow first senior season 2014/15 and licenced by their second season 2015/16.
Cumbernauld Colts first senior season 2015/16 season and licenced by their second season 2016/17.
Kelty Hearts first senior season 2017/18 and licenced by their second season 2018/19.
Getting a licence in a single season can be done and has been shown to be done as above. The licencing embargo hasn't helped matters for those moving across to the EoS this year, but there's enough guidance out there that clubs will know what to have begun working on. With the embargo now lifted i'm sure there will be a decent number of clubs that will get licenced by next season.
Current licencing standings as far as i'm aware are:

C1 against Linlithgow what if any is the significance of that?

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Auld Heid said:

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

BSC Glasgow first senior season 2014/15 and licenced by their second season 2015/16.
Cumbernauld Colts first senior season 2015/16 season and licenced by their second season 2016/17.
Kelty Hearts first senior season 2017/18 and licenced by their second season 2018/19.
Getting a licence in a single season can be done and has been shown to be done as above. The licencing embargo hasn't helped matters for those moving across to the EoS this year, but there's enough guidance out there that clubs will know what to have begun working on. With the embargo now lifted i'm sure there will be a decent number of clubs that will get licenced by next season.
Current licencing standings as far as i'm aware are:

C1 against Linlithgow what if any is the significance of that?

 

Just now, Tynierose said:

It's conference C position first.

Conference and position. They were wondering how many in the running for Top 5 would be licenced. So it was my way of showing the current standings.

[Deanburn Dave]

It's conference C position first.

As it was against Linlithgow Rose my immediate thought was it stood for c**ts of the first order.

[Burnie_man]

Yeah, you would of thought that this was the perfect opportunity for the SFA to have released that ready made statement announcing it's a done deal [emoji4]
As for TJ he's basically repeating everything he said to the SJFA clubs back in his May email.
" Discussion took place on how integration would work in terms of Registrations, Discipline and Fixture Lists in particular.  We were unable to resolve all the issues at the meeting however it was agreed that the SFA Board be appraised of the progress at their next meeting in June.  N.B. None of the issues raised appeared insurmountable. "

Hurdles to overcome may also now include planning for LL2, what it will look like, criteria, and whether it will be in place for next season or the season after.

[Pyramidic]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

On 03/11/2018 at 11:21, FairWeatherFan said:

Yeah, you would of thought that this was the perfect opportunity for the SFA to have released that ready made statement announcing it's a done deal
As for TJ he's basically repeating everything he said to the SJFA clubs back in his May email.
" Discussion took place on how integration would work in terms of Registrations, Discipline and Fixture Lists in particular.  We were unable to resolve all the issues at the meeting however it was agreed that the SFA Board be appraised of the progress at their next meeting in June.  N.B. None of the issues raised appeared insurmountable. "

Hurdles to overcome may also now include planning for LL2, what it will look like, criteria, and whether it will be in place for next season or the season after.

If I recall correctly LL was set up in a very very short timescale. Why not LL2 over a similar period?  What would be the main hurdles in setting up LL2 for next season?  Other than TJ?

Would there be any benefit in waiting for EOL Prem for 2019/20 and then transferring the WR Prem and EOL Prem to a new LL2W & LL2E for 2020/21? Or would it represent too many changes/instability over a short period.

[Burnie_man]

12 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

If I recall correctly LL was set up in a very very short timescale. Why not LL2 over a similar period?  What would be the main hurdles in setting up LL2 for next season?  Other than TJ?

Would there be any benefit in waiting for EOL Prem for 2019/20 and then transferring the WR Prem and EOL Prem to a new LL2W & LL2E for 2020/21? Or would it represent too many changes/instability over a short period.

I can't disagree, if LL2 is going to become a reality then it really should happen in conjunction with all the other changes and that means next season.   First though they need to decide what an LL2 would look like, straight 16 team division or West/East, and whether a Licence would be required straight from the outset or whether there is a grace period, whether they allow applications or purely by on field performance. 

If it happens as a straight 16 team single division, I wonder how many Ayrshire Juniors will want to join it given the likelihood of trips to Perth and Fife.  If it goes West/East, it effectively ends SJFA involvement as the top West Junior sides would form the West Division under LL control.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Burnie_man

[FairWeatherFan]

2 hours ago, Pyramidic said:

If I recall correctly LL was set up in a very very short timescale. Why not LL2 over a similar period?  What would be the main hurdles in setting up LL2 for next season?  Other than TJ?

Would there be any benefit in waiting for EOL Prem for 2019/20 and then transferring the WR Prem and EOL Prem to a new LL2W & LL2E for 2020/21? Or would it represent too many changes/instability over a short period.

If they PWG meetings have proven to be something of a stalemate I'm starting to think it's the more likely option of a LL2 for next year. The Lowland League have actually started a working group on the matter, they've already got to attract applications for a vacancy and they were likely to rejig their rulebook.

Then you take the LL standings right now and have Cove Rangers win promotion with Albion Rovers relegated to the Lowland League. That leaves Dalbeattie Star in a 17 team South of Scotland next year. While the chances of that are slim, the outcome won't be known until May. That's not something i'd want hanging over my head for the next 6 months. Instances like that are why the 4x League solution at Tier 6 probably isn't very palatable to the Lowland League.

LL2 as a single division, or LL2West/LL2East gives them a stable league structure for clubs to be relegated into and the opportunity to impose licencing standards as a big picture requirement. I'm not sure how eager the SJFA will be to encourage licencing standards and the SoS are probably maxed out in terms of what can be achieved there aside from Bonnyton Thistle.

A LL2 might also be beneficial to the EoS. A single division LL2 or LL2East is going to be the new EoS Premier in all but name. With the current membership of the EoS that'd leave it with a decent number to split into 2x tiered divisions at Tier 7 and Tier 8. While at the moment there might be the argument for 2x regional divisions at Tier 7, further extending some of the one sided games that can occur.

[FairWeatherFan]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

I can't disagree, if LL2 is going to become a reality then it really should happen in conjunction with all the other changes and that means next season.   First though they need to decide what an LL2 would look like, straight 16 team division or West/East, and whether a Licence would be required straight from the outset or whether there is a grace period, whether they allow applications or purely by on field performance. 

If it happens as a straight 16 team single division, I wonder how many Ayrshire Juniors will want to join it given the likelihood of trips to Perth and Fife.  If it goes West/East, it effectively ends SJFA involvement as the top West Junior sides would form the West Division under LL control.

I'm sure they'd work it like the Lowland League, open applications with a grace period to get licenced. Then it's a balancing act of the ability to get licenced with best on field performance across the various leagues.

If it's a single division I doubt there will be many Ayrshire Junior applicants. Apart from Kilwinning there doesn't seem to have been much interest in the pyramid publicly.

[Burnie_man]

50 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I'm sure they'd work it like the Lowland League, open applications with a grace period to get licenced. Then it's a balancing act of the ability to get licenced with best on field performance across the various leagues.

If it's a single division I doubt there will be many Ayrshire Junior applicants. Apart from Kilwinning there doesn't seem to have been much interest in the pyramid publicly.

It's a clever move, perhaps an indication that more than a few LL clubs were not happy at the prospect of dropping into leagues under the control of the SJFA should they be relegated, and who can blame them.    It kinda mirrors the National Leagues in England who look after both tier 5 and 6. It probably also allows them to relegate more clubs and put pressure on the SPFL to reciprocate.

If the LL come to the PWG meeting on 14th November with a rough plan of what they want to do at tier 6, then it's going to be interesting to see how the SJFA react.

Personally I hope LL2 splits West and East, in the East it's basically the EoS Premier by another name for which plans are already in place.  In  the West, if the SJFA do not want to co-operate then you open it up to applications, and as long as you have a dozen to start with it's a goer. I think most top West clubs would jump at it.

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Burnie_man

[Pyramidic]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

It's a clever move, perhaps an indication that more than a few LL clubs were not happy at the prospect of dropping into leagues under the control of the SJFA should they be relegated, and who can blame them.    It kinda mirrors the National Leagues in England who look after both tier 5 and 6. It probably also allows them to relegate more clubs and put pressure on the SPFL to reciprocate.

If the LL come to the PWG meeting on 14th November with a rough plan of what they want to do at tier 6, then it's going to be interesting to see how the SJFA react.

Personally I hope LL2 splits West and East, in the East it's basically the EoS Premier by another name for which plans are already in place.  In  the West, if the SJFA do not want to co-operate then you open it up to applications, and as long as you have a dozen to start with it's a goer. I think most top West clubs would jump at it.

 

If Dalkeith and Blackburn (with their licensing applications being lined up) decide to make headway as early applicants for LL2, will the 2 clubs yet again lead another stampede?  This time corralling the top clubs in the West as well as the East?

If the original intention is to form say a 16 team LL2 and some 40 applications are generated won't there be a very strong temptation by the Lowland League management committee to go the "whole hog" for LL2 East and LL2 West?   The "Pyramid tale" is absolutely fascinating and who at this moment knows how the 2019/20 season is going to unfold? It may just be fiction at the moment but there is beginning to appear strong overtones of reality.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Pyramidic

[FairWeatherFan]

53 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

It's a clever move, perhaps an indication that more than a few LL clubs were not happy at the prospect of dropping into leagues under the control of the SJFA should they be relegated, and who can blame them.    It kinda mirrors the National Leagues in England who look after both tier 5 and 6. It probably also allows them to relegate more clubs and put pressure on the SPFL to reciprocate.

If the LL come to the PWG meeting on 14th November with a rough plan of what they want to do at tier 6, then it's going to be interesting to see how the SJFA react.

Personally I hope LL2 splits West and East, in the East it's basically the EoS Premier by another name for which plans are already in place.  In  the West, if the SJFA do not want to co-operate then you open it up to applications, and as long as you have a dozen to start with it's a goer. I think most top West clubs would jump at it.

 

I think everyone outside of the SJFA would be okay with Tier 6 Lowland West and Lowland East. The SJFA don't want to lose control of the West Premiership clubs as that's the only thing giving them relevance.

Luckily the SJFA is outside looking in. A WoSFL probably could have happened this year with all the momentum that occured, just no one took the lead on it. Hopefully that's what the Lowland League are doing now.

EDIT:

Hmmmm.....

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by FairWeatherFan

[energyzone]

I'm sure they'd work it like the Lowland League, open applications with a grace period to get licenced. Then it's a balancing act of the ability to get licenced with best on field performance across the various leagues.
If it's a single division I doubt there will be many Ayrshire Junior applicants. Apart from Kilwinning there doesn't seem to have been much interest in the pyramid publicly.

If Kilwinning appear interested it's fair to say other clubs are as well. The chairman said on the junior forum several months ago that a number of clubs had been discussing it.