Pyramid 2019/2020

[Burnie_man]

Plenty of chat over in the Junior forum so may as well start something here as it potentially affects every single club in the EoS.

The last EoS meeting minutes mention that the PWG agreed on the creation of new West of Scotland and “Tayside” Leagues. Others claim that what this actually means in that the WRJFA and the ERJFA will enter at tier 6 and take part in the play-offs ie, the East Juniors will effectively become a competitor league to the EoS and continue the artificial divide in the Lothians and Fife. 

Two differing interpretations of what was discussed at the last PWG, which probably won’t be clarified until after the next meeting on 30th October.

What would the reaction be to the East Juniors getting their foot in the door at the same level as next seasons EoS Premier, and a place in the LL play-offs?

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Surely they can't allow Juniors into the play offs this season? Can't imagine the LL, SoS or EoS will allow that.

[Marshmallo]

5 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Surely they can't allow Juniors into the play offs this season? Can't imagine the LL, SoS or EoS will allow that.

It's deliberate misinformation being spread by SJFA management to try and stem the flow

[Burnie_man]

Surely they can't allow Juniors into the play offs this season? Can't imagine the LL, SoS or EoS will allow that.

It wont be this season.

[Gingernuts]

2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

13 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Surely they can't allow Juniors into the play offs this season? Can't imagine the LL, SoS or EoS will allow that.

It wont be this season.

no. but it will the next. and rightly so.

[Jason King]

Who south of the Tay side has a realistic chance of actually winning the East Juniors? 

With its present setup of the big Tayside teams and the rump of the Fife and Lothians teams you are going to see  9 times out of 10 a team that falls into the Highland side of things winning the league, why on earth would they be allowed to enter a playoff for the Lowland setup?

[FairWeatherFan]

I think some clarity over the licensing embargo would swing the discussion. Getting licensed was often used as one of the main reasons for East Region clubs moving to the EoS. 

If the SFA puts up too many roadblocks it would likely entrench the Juniors where they are.

[Jason King]

Good to see "Gingernuts" is back to his old ways. Tragic case.

[Burnie_man]

5 minutes ago, Jason King said:

Who south of the Tay side has a realistic chance of actually winning the East Juniors? 

With its present setup of the big Tayside teams and the rump of the Fife and Lothians teams you are going to see  9 times out of 10 a team that falls into the Highland side of things winning the league, why on earth would they be allowed to enter a playoff for the Lowland setup?

Unless they move the boundary?  I'm more concerned with the SFA being happy to continue the artificial divide with clubs existing a few miles from each other but in completely different league set-ups.

I'm confident that won't happen but with the SFA, anything is possible.

[FairWeatherFan]

8 minutes ago, Jason King said:

Who south of the Tay side has a realistic chance of actually winning the East Juniors? 

With its present setup of the big Tayside teams and the rump of the Fife and Lothians teams you are going to see  9 times out of 10 a team that falls into the Highland side of things winning the league, why on earth would they be allowed to enter a playoff for the Lowland setup?

Since they've managed to win it in the past, Tayport.

[Gingernuts]

2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Unless they move the boundary?  I'm more seething  with the SFA being happy to continue the artificial divide with clubs existing a few miles from each other but in completely different league set-ups.

I'm confident that won't happen but with the SFA, anything is possible.

 

[Jason King]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Since they've managed to win it in the past, Tayport.

Tayport havent been any sort of power in the Junior game for over a decade. Cant see them challenging.

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Unless they move the boundary?  I'm more concerned with the SFA being happy to continue the artificial divide with clubs existing a few miles from each other but in completely different league set-ups.

I'm confident that won't happen but with the SFA, anything is possible.

Whatever the set up is in 2019/20 it won't be like that in 5 years. That's the only bit of hope I have long term.

SJFA Scottish Cup fundamentally changes to fit into the senior calendar for league playoffs. Big Junior clubs that get promoted won't be replaced weakening the top junior leagues etc.

 

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Whatever the set up is in 2019/20 it won't be like that in 5 years. That's the only bit of hope I have long term.

SJFA Scottish Cup fundamentally changes to fit into the senior calendar for league playoffs. Big Junior clubs that get promoted won't be replaced weakening the top junior leagues etc.

 

The PWG need to get the basic structure right as a result of these series of discussions otherwise this whole mess carries on. As we know, West is easy, as is North, it's the East where there has always been issues yet the straightforward solution stares everyone on the face, join the EoS, anything other than that is a half-arsed clusterfuck.   I'm fairly confident that will be the outcome as the ERJFA is a fatally weakened league top heavy with HL area clubs, but accurate information coming out of the PWG is non-existent.

[Gimme]

I think some clarity over the licensing embargo would swing the discussion. Getting licensed was often used as one of the main reasons for East Region clubs moving to the EoS. 
If the SFA puts up too many roadblocks it would likely entrench the Juniors where they are.

I'm surprised its not been mentioned previously but I understand the lack of any information regarding the current embargo has lead to a number of clubs getting together to take further action including a legal challenge if necessary.

[Burnie_man]

17 minutes ago, Gimme said:

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I think some clarity over the licensing embargo would swing the discussion. Getting licensed was often used as one of the main reasons for East Region clubs moving to the EoS. 
If the SFA puts up too many roadblocks it would likely entrench the Juniors where they are.

I'm surprised its not been mentioned previously but I understand the lack of any information regarding the current embargo has lead to a number of clubs getting together to take further action including a legal challenge if necessary.

The last SFA Board meeting was 4th October after which they were to contact the leagues concerned with an update re embargo. To the best of my knowledge no information has yet emerged.

[GordonS]

There's absolutely no way anyone should accept someone like Thornton Hibs or Whitburn getting into a promotion play-off for the LL based on the East Region Superleague. The ship has sailed in the east and it would be unconscionable to allow smaller teams who stayed behind in a lesser set-up that was never in the pyramid to be magically lifted to the level of those who moved into the pyramid. 

The issue of Tayside (including north Fife) needs to be sorted, Scotland's demographic spread is weird because of the Grampian mountains and the liveable parts of the east narrows to a few miles at Stonehaven. Personally I'd be in favour of saying those south of the Tay are in the East, those north of Montrose are in the North, and those in between may choose. But what's not really acceptable is to say that Tayside is big enough to come in at the same level as the West and the East. They could perhaps have a league at Tier 7 potentially feeding North and/or East play-offs, but they definitely should not have a league at Tier 6. 

[FairWeatherFan]

6 hours ago, Jason King said:

Tayport havent been any sort of power in the Junior game for over a decade. Cant see them challenging.

First chance i've had to look at some of the East Super League tables. No one left in the East Region has been much of a power this past decade compared to those that have left:

 

 

[Burnie_man]

3 hours ago, GordonS said:

There's absolutely no way anyone should accept someone like Thornton Hibs or Whitburn getting into a promotion play-off for the LL based on the East Region Superleague. The ship has sailed in the east and it would be unconscionable to allow smaller teams who stayed behind in a lesser set-up that was never in the pyramid to be magically lifted to the level of those who moved into the pyramid. 

The issue of Tayside (including north Fife) needs to be sorted, Scotland's demographic spread is weird because of the Grampian mountains and the liveable parts of the east narrows to a few miles at Stonehaven. Personally I'd be in favour of saying those south of the Tay are in the East, those north of Montrose are in the North, and those in between may choose. But what's not really acceptable is to say that Tayside is big enough to come in at the same level as the West and the East. They could perhaps have a league at Tier 7 potentially feeding North and/or East play-offs, but they definitely should not have a league at Tier 6. 

The problem is, Ian Maxwell doesn't understand non-league football so in that regard anything is possible.

What the EoS can do about ERJFA potentially becoming a competitor league covering the same area I don't know, it's madness and continues artificial division but as I said, not sure how much the SFA understand or care.

[GordonS]

8 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The problem is, Ian Maxwell doesn't understand non-league football so in that regard anything is possible.

What the EoS can do about ERJFA potentially becoming a competitor league covering the same area I don't know, it's madness and continues artificial division but as I said, not sure how much the SFA understand or care.

Whose decision is it to make, do you know? And how much sway do the LL hold? If we're talking about promotion into their league, I'd have thought they'd have more interest in their friends in the EOSFL, and more regard for those who jumped across from the Juniors to join it, than for those who've remained in the ERSJFA.