welshbairn Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Kuro said: Well there you go. It's obviously a tragedy but to suggest she was deliberately targeted is simply dishonest. Adults gave teenagers a gun to fire towards a crowd of people around a police van. And went marching in Dublin today after refusing responsibility for the murder. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, Kuro said: Well there you go. It's obviously a tragedy but to suggest she was deliberately targeted is simply dishonest. How the f**k can you possibly know that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jofis Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Kuro said: Well there you go. It's obviously a tragedy but to suggest she was deliberately targeted is simply dishonest. Parochial, hoodlum, drug dealing types in Ireland have precedence with this type of behaviour. You aren't in receipt of the full gamut of facts regarding Lyra McKee's murder either, but you seem to be of the mind that the perpetrators were targeting the Polis. Maybe some sort of Judicial process needs to take place before the facts are uncovered. Thankfully trial by P&B won't define this case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 28 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Adults gave teenagers a gun to fire towards a crowd of people around a police van. And went marching in Dublin today after refusing responsibility for the murder. Uh huh. Thanks for the commentary, except it wasn't to.fire at the crowd of people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 30 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: How the f**k can you possibly know that? Cause my head isn't up my arse. Do you think it's a coincidence she was standing right next to a police van. And the group responsible have issued a statement saying exactly the same thing. There's no logic whatsoever to targeting a journalist or civilian. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 29 minutes ago, jofis said: Parochial, hoodlum, drug dealing types in Ireland have precedence with this type of behaviour. You aren't in receipt of the full gamut of facts regarding Lyra McKee's murder either, but you seem to be of the mind that the perpetrators were targeting the Polis. Maybe some sort of Judicial process needs to take place before the facts are uncovered. Thankfully trial by P&B won't define this case. Because they were, and they have said as much too. There was nobody else to target. You're aware it was a republican area right? There's no reason at all they would dream of shooting any of.the civilians there as they're on the same side. Don't believe me? How's about the assistant chief constable of the PSNI... ''This public order situation saw over 50 petrol bombs thrown at police, two cars hijacked and set on fire, and then unfortunately at 11 o’clock a gunman appeared and fired a number of shots towards police.'' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Kuro said: With you maybe cause you're clearly an idiot. In reality that's extremely easy to do, especially for teenagers with no formal training in firearms. 2 hours ago, Kuro said: They didn't aim at the crowd at all. They're not serious revolutionaries. 2 hours ago, Kuro said: I wonder how many people on this thread are aware firearms kick when you fire them if you don't hold them right. Maybe have a wee scan of that video of a kid firing a gun and see if you think that's how you're taught to do it, or a kid with no clue what he's doing sticking his arm round a corner. So this is the best a group of hiding adults giving guns to teenagers can come up with. Get back to your stories about advising American politicians while caddying would be my recommendation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: So this is the best a group of hiding adults giving guns to teenagers can come up with. Get back to your stories about advising American politicians while caddying would be my recommendation. Lol. Just admit you were wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Kuro said: Lol. Just admit you were wrong. When you admit handing a gun to a teenager to fire it at a police landrover surrounded by civilians was wrong. The woman is dead, the teenager will be in jail for most if not all of the rest of his life. Why are you trying to justify that? Edited April 21, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Kuro said: Again, show me where I said that makes it okay.... He is, but he won't be charged with murder, for the reasons I've outlined. I'd say firing a gun randomly into a crowd would fulfill the mens rea for murder as that is pretty much reckless endangerment. Edited April 21, 2019 by Cyclizine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Cyclizine said: I'd say firing a gun randomly into a crowd would fulfill the mens rea for murder as that is pretty much reckless endangerment. If that's what they did, except it isn't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 7 hours ago, welshbairn said: When you admit handing a gun to a teenager to fire it at a police landrover surrounded by civilians was wrong. The woman is dead, the teenager will be in jail for most if not all of the rest of his life. Why are you trying to justify that? Again, show.me where I justify that.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Kuro said: If that's what they did, except it isn't. No. They aimed at and murdered Lyra McKee. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Tibbermoresaint said: No. They aimed at and murdered Lyra McKee. Not according to the PSNI. Do you know something they don't? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Kuro said: Not according to the PSNI. Do you know something they don't? Merely pointing out the facts, chap. Don't live in denial forever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: Merely pointing out the facts, chap. Don't live in denial forever. So just hysterical nonsense then like I thought. Carry on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Kuro said: So just hysterical nonsense then like I thought. You need to evolve from hysterical nonsense. I doubt you have the capability though. Sociopaths tend not to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, Kuro said: If that's what they did, except it isn't. How the f**k do you know what they did or what their intentions were? Lets hear your version of what actually happened. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 minute ago, ICTJohnboy said: How the f**k do you know what they did or what their intentions were? Lets hear your version of what actually happened. I don't have a version. I gave you the asst chief constable of the PSNI's version already. If you want to argue with that knock yourself out. I've wasted enough time indulging fannies already. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) HMA v Cawthorne - Accused fired a high velocity rifle into a room where four people had taken refuge from him. Mens rea for attempted murder was found because there was a deliberate intention to kill or a wicked recklessness in that the accused was indifferent as to whether death resulted from his actions. Petto v HMA - Accused set fire to a building to dispose of a body and argued there was no mens rea for the murder of someone inside the building who died from the fire. Court rejected that and convicted of the murder of the second victim. A key point is that it could have been anticipated that there were other people in the building and in the event that only injury rather than death resulted the accused would be guilty of assault. HMA v Purcell - Accused knocked down a child at a pedestrian crossing whilst fleeing police. Convicted of culpable homicide rather than murder because the accused's actions were not found to have intended to cause some form of personal injury. That's the Scots Law position on killing someone you didn't intend to, not sure about Norn Iron. IMO it'll be broadly similar and shooting at a crowd and killing someone you didn't aim for would be found to be murder. Carry on. Edited April 21, 2019 by The OP 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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