Guest Jedi Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) Haven't heard any mention of Federalism for some time. Is it likely or could it come back on the agenda? One of the problems with it as a proposal appears to be both the difficulty in defining how it would work, and also, the lack of appetite for having English 'regions' represented as state legislators. Clearly, a system with worked on a four nation model is too unbalanced with 80% of the population residing in one country, England, Presumably a written constitution would be required, with a division of responsibilities between federal (second chamber replacing the House of Lords) and state tiers. It would need only foreign affairs, defence, potentially external trade and monetary policy (exchange rates etc) set in the House of Commons. All other powers including taxation, welfare, fisheries, the environment and so on would pass to the Scottish parliament, the Welsh Assembly and Stormont, with English Regional Assemblies having the choice over which power to appropriate. The House of Commons would need agreement from all assemblies to pass legislation which impacted the whole (defence/foreign affairs). The second federal chamber would be elected, and have the final say outside the Supreme Court on matters pertaining to the assemblies/parliaments. Pie in the sky or a point for discussion (unlikely to say the least with a Tory govt I know) in how to break a log jam of continued SNP success in Scotland. Also, from the point of view that something has to change, whether that be by Indy Ref 2, or another constitutional route. If Scotland were to be offered this model with powers over everything apart from defence, foreign affairs, exchange rate policy (effectively FFA), would that be acceptable? Doesn't get us back in the EU in the short to medium term, but.. Edited December 20, 2019 by Jedi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Something will no doubt be fudged and the soft no's will lap it up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, Jedi said: If Scotland were to be offered this model with powers over everything apart from defence, foreign affairs, exchange rate policy (effectively FFA), would that be acceptable? Doesn't get us back in the EU in the short to medium term, but.. Federalism? Good idea. Were I English I'd object to how much Jockland has punched above its weight in Westminster for the past 100+ years so Federalism may be a decent option. I assume you'd not regard Scotland as an homogeneous unit. How would you look to divide it? The Islands as one group and a mazy line separating the decent parts of Scotland from the scum such as Dundee, The Weege and North Lanarkshire? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: scum such as Dundee You are really bitter at this Yes city. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Federalism? Good idea. Were I English I'd object to how much Jockland has punched above its weight in Westminster for the past 100+ years so Federalism may be a decent option. I assume you'd not regard Scotland as an homogeneous unit. How would you look to divide it? The Islands as one group and a mazy line separating the decent parts of Scotland from the scum such as Dundee, The Weege and North Lanarkshire?I'm on the gin tonight mate too!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, johnnydun said: You are really bitter at this Yes city. I quite liked my trip to Dundee in August and enjoyed the game vs Ayr. I'd not realised that the whole toon was built on the side of a fucking cliff, though and wished I'd brought my oxygen tank. You need a team of sherpas (or a taxi) to get you from the city centre to Dens. Edited December 20, 2019 by The_Kincardine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 The UK model of sovereignty at Westminster is clearly broken. Can't continue to have a map where one part is yellow and the other blue. With the repatriation of powers from Brussels over immigration, fisheries, the environment, etc. they now obviously have the choice to hand these to Scotland, Wales, and N.Ireland or keep them in London. Chances are with this govt that they will do the latter. It might be that a conversation is needed over Independence, status quo or federalism, done properly and not based on the 'Vow' style arrangements. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said: I quite liked my trip to Dundee in August and enjoyed the game vs Ayr. I'd not realised that the whole toon was built on the side of a fucking cliff, though and wished I'd brought my oxygen tank. Most "Fort" cities are built on a hill. Why does that make it a scum city? Did you not like Lochee? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 The UK model of sovereignty at Westminster is clearly broken. Can't continue to have a map where one part is yellow and the other blue. With the repatriation of powers from Brussels over immigration, fisheries, the environment, etc. they now obviously have the choice to hand these to Scotland, Wales, and N.Ireland or keep them in London. Chances are with this govt that they will do the latter. It might be that a conversation is needed over Independence, status quo or federalism, done properly and not based on the 'Vow' style arrangements. The problem only exists do those who think the UK is fair. It is clear that having a part of the map yellow is not a problem to the current government. You can only have a conversation with someone who is actually interested and they aren’t, they are pretty happy with the status quo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jambomo said: The problem only exists do those who think the UK is fair. Indeed. One can't blame those who think that the Scottish tail has wagged the English dog for at least the past 200 years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Indeed. One can't blame those who think that the Scottish tail has wagged the English dog for at least the past 200 years.Happy Christmas old chap 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: 54 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: Indeed. One can't blame those who think that the Scottish tail has wagged the English dog for at least the past 200 years. Happy Christmas old chap Best wishes to yourself, auld yin. Some put you down as 'the da' of the forum but you can be ok at times 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Best wishes to yourself, auld yin. Some put you down as 'the da' of the forum but you can be ok at times [emoji6]Ha ha. I love the Da comment tbh... Keep it coming imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 I don’t want Federalism, I want Independence. There is no point settling for second best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Federalism to me means keeping Trident, f**k that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) The problem with federalism is that it wouldn't solve the biggest problems with Britain: our foreign policy, our nuclear policy and our relationship with Europe. It's just a wee buzz word that unionists will be desperate to get on to the ballot paper. Edited December 21, 2019 by Mr Heliums 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Would much prefer Independence as well, and agree about the Trident issue with federalism. Indeed any form of federalism seems a long,long way off with a Tory govt. However further down the line, if a 2nd Ref continues to be blocked until potentially 2022, following the next Scottish election, we might eventually hear more about it. In any situation where Indy Ref 2 was lost, the SNP would probably have to move to campaigning for federalism...but hopefully it never comes to that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Federalism would be brilliant solution for those parts of England that have been persuaded that Brussels is the cause of all their problems. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Federalism is dead - it was killed as soon as there was a massive No vote to a Regional Assembly in the North East of England. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 The No vote to English Assemblies was 15 years ago though. I don't imagine federalism is anywhere near being on the agenda at the moment, and certainly not prior to another Indy Ref first of all. Am thinking more in terms of of what happens next in the event of either Indy Ref being dragged out for years not being granted, or held and lost, and what would potentially follow. If the Tories didn't hold such a current thumping majority but instead had most seats in a hung parliament it might have gained some traction. Will be interesting to see how they propose to build a stronger union over the next 5 years, as presumably they don't have any intention of doing so, rather continually saying there is no mandate for a fresh Ref, and keeping powers repatriated at Westminster. Be interesting to see if Labour start moving towards a more serious 'federal' position in the next few years meantime though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.