Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

You'd hope it's the first scenario.  Lockdowns absolutely destroy the economy so they can't, in good conscience, keep them in place as the vaccines do exactly what they were designed to do,

There's already mutterings about further extending furlough until September / October 2021, the mere fact that this is being discussed in the corridors of power doesn't fill me with any sort of confidence.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

10 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Yes, I'd tend to agree with you, it's quite concerning how they all seem to be planning for the long haul and no country at all appears to be breaking ranks on this.

If i was a conspiracy theorist / cynical, I'd actually question if the "vaccine" wasn't some coordinated PR stunt designed to give hope and keep people in line for another few months..........

The great reset.

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, H Wragg said:

Would anyone bar health professionals routinely know the names of different Flu vaccines? Are there different ones?

My son is entitled to a flu jag as he has asthma. When we went to get it we were asked about him feeling fine over the previous couple of days and whether or not he had any egg allergy. That was it.

Eggy jag jag?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The number of people involved in keeping that ‘conspiracy’ under wraps at all levels and across private industry and public sector would be absolutely massive, there is no way that is happening. 

Watch this space, if we start to read about eminent scientists meeting with bizarre and unexplained fatal accidents followed by suicides of "troubled" junior civil servants, then we'll know we're on to something !!

[Paco]

There's already mutterings about further extending furlough until September / October 2021, the mere fact that this is being discussed in the corridors of power doesn't fill me with any sort of confidence.

Ask yourself whether you think conference centres, nightclubs and events will be open and functioning as normal on May 1st. And then ask yourself again whether a furlough extension is a bad idea.

[Detournement]

8 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The number of people involved in keeping that ‘conspiracy’ under wraps at all levels and across private industry and public sector would be absolutely massive, there is no way that is happening. 

It would be comparable to something like the big oil companies having knowledge of the impact of climate change for decades and not only keeping the data secret but funding denialism. 

Which happened. 

[Kneal Down Caster]

Eggy jag jag?

Good Yolk.

[Distant Doonhamer]

Good Yolk.

^^^ bad egg.

[super_carson]

It's hard to tell what government's are thinking with regards to their future policies.  There is lots of noise from scientists and doctor's about "Zero-Covid", but not much officially from governments (either the SG or WM) beyond us needing to carry on with the restrictions just now.  Part of me wonders, and hopes, that the downplaying of vaccines is just a move to manage expectations and avoid any blaming if they don't make a meaningful impact on hospitalisations/deaths.  I have also said a few times that I don't think governments are comfortable with the onus now being on them to deliver the vaccines and are preferring to shift the focus back on to public responsibility.  I think they are waiting to see if vaccinations make a difference before deciding the overall policy.  

I am still hoping that the governments, and populations,  will ultimately choose to listen to comments like Whitty's about learning to live with it.  Did the shinning example of  "zero-covid", Jacinda Ardern, not say to the NZ parliament that their ultimate goal is to get to the point whereby covid becomes managed like the flu?  Within that statement, there is a tacit acceptance that absolute zero-covid is fallacy and it is something that has to be managed in the long run.  

However, I am concerned that given the SG's ultra-cautious, safety-before-everything-else, approach - coupled with the new quarantine requirements - that zero-covid will become the focus up here.  Arguably, we almost achieved it in the summer and Leitch has claimed that foreign travel was behind the upsurge in cases throughout the autumn (couldn't possibly have been any other sort of institutions, could it?).   But it took nearly 4 months to reach that point, and we never even fully loosened restrictions before  strict limits were put on us again.  How long and severe a lockdown would we need to endure to reach that?  Surely the medicine will be worse than the disease by that point?

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Paco said:

Ask yourself whether you think conference centres, nightclubs and events will be open and functioning as normal on May 1st. And then ask yourself again whether a furlough extension is a bad idea.

By your own reasoning though, do you think these same venues will be "functioning as normal" come December 2021 ??

What about the people who worked for Debenhams or Arcadia group or any of the many others who have pulled the plug ?

Where and when do we draw the line ?

The world has changed, it's a disaster for many, however why should the state continue to give some people up to £2,500 per month, when others are only being given £300 per month ??

How is that right or indeed fair in any way whatsoever ??

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

If they say the borders are shut til 2022 i think im gonna take a berkie.

[Todd_is_God]

5 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

By your own reasoning though, do you think these same venues will be "functioning as normal" come December 2021 ??

IF the vaccines work as well as they initially appear to be in Israel there is really no reason why not.

It's very different closing entire sectors when there is a demonstrable threat to the healthcare system than it would be to keep those same sectors closed for an extra 6 months plus just in case something pops up.

Using that logic, nothing would ever open again.

[Paco]

By your own reasoning though, do you think these same venues will be "functioning as normal" come December 2021 ??

It depends on the success of the vaccine. By May half of the population will still be unvaccinated and discouraged from “needless” mixing. By December that should be very different. I’d hope they could at least have a shot at being open.

What about the people who worked for Debenhams or Arcadia group or any of the many others who have pulled the plug ?
Where and when do we draw the line ?
The world has changed, it's a disaster for many, however why should the state continue to give some people up to £2,500 per month, when others are only being given £300 per month ??
How is that right or indeed fair in any way whatsoever ??

We’re now a long way from your initial point but Debenhams and Arcadia are businesses falling over. It’s a bloody tough break for the workers but when all restrictions are over, Debenhams and Arcadia won’t be there - other businesses will.

You can probably make a moral argument about paying everyone the same if they’re not allowed to work but it isn’t the way to get public buy-in to restrictions.

[parsforlife]

14 minutes ago, Detournement said:

It would be comparable to something like the big oil companies having knowledge of the impact of climate change for decades and not only keeping the data secret but funding denialism. 

Which happened. 

Expect they didn’t keep climate change a secret, every scientist of any note has been banging on about it and completely overwhelmed any oil funded deniers.  Just shows despite the biggest company’s in the biggest industry trying to arrange a large scale conspiracy,  they don’t succeed,  it’s pretty fucking difficult.

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, parsforlife said:

Expect they didn’t keep climate change a secret, every scientist of any note has been banging on about it and completely overwhelmed any oil funded deniers.  Just shows despite the biggest company’s in the biggest industry trying to arrange a large scale conspiracy,  they don’t succeed,  it’s pretty fucking difficult.

They did succeed! They are still profiting from wrecking the planet almost 50 years later. 

[djchapsticks]

48 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Lots of people in Holland aren't accepting them right now. 

If the vaccine really was a game changer I think governments would be acting very differently. Prepare to be disappointed.

Nonsense. The default status of governments worldwide is to downplay for two reasons.

1) It stops people losing focus, going out and about safe in the knowledge a vaccine is coming soon and inevitably driving infections way up

2) They are erring on the side of caution as it's still a new vaccine.

If they truly didn't think it would be game changer then they most certainly would not be wrecking economies and ordering it at a level where it will be the largest vaccine rollout in human history.

[Ron Aldo]

The original pandemic planning document said any viral pandemic would have three waves so I've always assumed we will have three waves (or winters).
Being cynical and a pessimist I think that governments will eventually announce that we need perpetual vaccination to battle mutations and that the infrastructure will be created to exclude the non vaccinated from many spheres of life as Tony Blair has talked about in the media. 

Genuine question but has there been any previous pandemics where a vaccine has been rolled out in the second wave? The last pandemic of this scale was the Spanish flu but medicine has moved on a fair bit since then.

[Detournement]

Just now, djchapsticks said:

 

If they truly didn't think it would be game changer then they most certainly would not be wrecking economies and ordering it at a level where it will be the largest vaccine rollout in human history.

The Dow Jones hit an all time high in the past week. The economy is wrecked for normal people, for elites it's never been better. 

[Detournement]

13 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

The original pandemic planning document said any viral pandemic would have three waves so I've always assumed we will have three waves (or winters).
Being cynical and a pessimist I think that governments will eventually announce that we need perpetual vaccination to battle mutations and that the infrastructure will be created to exclude the non vaccinated from many spheres of life as Tony Blair has talked about in the media. 

Genuine question but has there been any previous pandemics where a vaccine has been rolled out in the second wave? The last pandemic of this scale was the Spanish flu but medicine has moved on a fair bit since then.

There were vaccines in 1957 and 1968 but I don't think they were distributed widely outside the USA. The 1968 flu pandemic only had two waves but there was no lockdown so herd immunity would built up quickly. 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Detournement

[madwullie]

1 hour ago, WATTOO said:

Yes, I'd tend to agree with you, it's quite concerning how they all seem to be planning for the long haul and no country at all appears to be breaking ranks on this.

If i was a conspiracy theorist / cynical, I'd actually question if the "vaccine" wasn't some coordinated PR stunt designed to give hope and keep people in line for another few months..........

Must admit I've wondered this as well. No real talk (apart from the US but they're still at the vinegar strokes of vaccine implementation) that the vaccine is the end game. 

I mean, I know she's public enemy number one, but even devi sridhar isn't so thick as to completely discount vaccines when saying zero covid is the best end game - so what's the point? Why are they not saying its all over now we have vaccines. I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories about global control, or long term restricted rights for the f**k of it, so what's going on? Is it really just not wanting to give too much good news in case people just loosen up at what is, more or less, the worst point hospitalisations-wise of the whole pandemic? 

I mean, I know people have doubts about the snp, but I don't think the tories want restrictions for longer than is absolutely necessary - and given as you say this is global, WTF

Edited January 26, 2021 by madwullie