Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[craigkillie]

2 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The left now is entirely different, led by people who’ve never actually had to struggle through life and who think that people struggling to pay the heating bill care more about idealistic debates than actual practical solutions to problems they face, look at the way labour ripped itself apart and the infighting in the snp over trans rights policies (fwiw im very much pro trans rights). This is what happens when the academic ideologists take over, everyone spends ages arguing about daft minutiae and nothing gets done.  

Do you not think that trans people have had to "struggle through life" and indeed continue to do so? Protecting their right to exist might be idealistic to you, but it's not for people who are being directly affected by the pervasive transphobia in this country. I'm sure the same arguments would have been made in the 80s and 90s about "the left" spending too much time focusing on gay rights or antiracism.

The SNP aren't even a left-wing party and have their own issues, but they are clearly way to the left of the Tories, and on issues such as people "struggling to pay the heating bill" they are absolutely miles ahead of the Tories. Look at free school meals for kids during the pandemic, something that was always available here, yet the UK government had to be shamed into by a fucking footballer (someone on "the left" no less). Look at the Tories cutting benefits and the Scottish government almost simultaneously raising child benefit for those in low income households.

I think it's entirely reasonable to be hugely critical of a lot of their pandemic response and feel that the Westminster government have got it right over the last little while. However, the Tories have also simultaneously trampled over people's human rights, been directly responsible for the deaths of refugees, essentially killed off thousands of disabled people and generally made life more miserable for poor and marginalised. If anyone thinks that is preferable to an independent Scotland, even one with an SNP majority, then I'd suggest they're not as left-wing as they think they are.

Edited November 30, 2021 by craigkillie

[Glennie]

25 minutes ago, Kima Greggs said:

Hasn't the Westminster response to the pandemic been just as much of a clown car driving through a minefield as the Holyrood one ?

Are posters who consider themselves 'left leaning' really now voting for a bunch of reprehensible right wing populists because they are winding back restrictions slightly quicker down south than up here ?

A caveat for the above here as I'm probably not up to speed with the latest news as I've stopped paying attention to anything Covid related on the news or social media and I'm basically getting on with it like the @HibsFan post above.

yes almost just as bad and theres huge anger at the clown show among many tory voters

so tories arent the answer either, and even the smaller left wing alternatives are big state fanatics

if you want out of this by your vote then right wing parties springing up as an alternative are your only options

[101]

Men who earn their living by being punched in the head really should keep their bat shit mental ideas to themselves 

[Glennie]

folk on here rather live under permanent doomsday hysteria than not vote snp

despairing

[Salt n Vinegar]

3 hours ago, Kima Greggs said:

Which boring nerd decided on utterly shite names like Delta and Omicron for the variants ?

What was wrong with naming them normally like they do with hurricanes and storms ?

Maybe they could name variants after some of the more oot the windae P&B members? 

[Wee-Bey]

26 minutes ago, Glennie said:

yes almost just as bad and theres huge anger at the clown show among many tory voters

so tories arent the answer either, and even the smaller left wing alternatives are big state fanatics

if you want out of this by your vote then right wing parties springing up as an alternative are your only options

I don't think more right wing parties are the answer here tbh.

[Abdul_Latif]

1 hour ago, Kima Greggs said:

Are posters who consider themselves 'left leaning' really now voting for a bunch of reprehensible right wing populists because they are winding back restrictions slightly quicker down south than up here ?

I’m not really seeing anyone say they are doing a 180 and voting conservative.

It’s more the case that an increasing number of Indy supporters are feeing politically homeless and will likely abstain at the ballot box for elections, though if a referendum ever comes round again will still support independence.

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

57 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Do you not think that trans people have had to "struggle through life" and indeed continue to do so? Protecting their right to exist might be idealistic to you, but it's not for people who are being directly affected by the pervasive transphobia in this country. I'm sure the same arguments would have been made in the 80s and 90s about "the left" spending too much time focusing on gay rights or antiracism.

The SNP aren't even a left-wing party and have their own issues, but they are clearly way to the left of the Tories, and miles better on issues such as people "struggling to pay the heating bill" they are absolutely miles ahead of the Tories. Look at free school meals for kids during the pandemic, something that was always available here, yet the UK government had to be shamed into by a fucking footballer (someone on "the left" no less). Look at the Tories cutting benefits and the Scottish government almost simultaneously raising child benefit for those in low income households.

I think it's entirely reasonable to be hugely critical of a lot of their pandemic response and feel that the Westminster government have got it right over the last little while. However, the Tories have also simultaneously trampled over people's human rights, been directly responsible for the deaths of refugees, essentially killed off thousands of disabled people and generally made life more miserable for poor and marginalised. If anyone thinks that is preferable to an independent Scotland, even one with an SNP majority, then I'd suggest they're not as left-wing as they think they are.

You seem to miss the part where i say i support it, i dont think there is grounds for this massive debate and infighting? The legislation should be strengthened and passed. Also at no point am I championing the ideology of conservatism in the slightest so the last section of your post however it appears aimed at me isnt relevant to me. Its actually embarrassing to see the snp rip itself apart about something that any rational person can see shouldnt be an issue. You’re framing your response to almost paint me out like im saying the tories are the good guys when thats not even remotely the point im making and indeed harks back to this thread almost a year ago where criticism of the SNP is being dismissed as support of the tories.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Inanimate Carbon Rod

[Salt n Vinegar]

2 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

I mean, I still vote Yes in the event of the referendum. I just dont know if I can swallow putting a vote in an SNP box in the meantime. Its a fucking hard call tbh. 

I can understand that approach, however my own view would be that without continued 'x' in the box on ballot papers for the SNP, there will be less obvious support for the SNP's objective.  There's an obvious danger in not voting SNP.  Without continued SNP electoral success, there simply won't be a referendum for you to vote "Yes" in. 

[Glennie]

10 minutes ago, Kima Greggs said:

I don't think more right wing parties are the answer here tbh.

voting wise if you want out of this thats the only option

Edited November 30, 2021 by Glennie

[Bairnardo]

2 minutes ago, Abdul_Latif said:

I’m not really seeing anyone say they are doing a 180 and voting conservative.

It’s more the case that an increasing number of Indy supporters are feeing politically homeless and will likely abstain at the ballot box for elections, though if a referendum ever comes round again will still support independence.

 

Yeah its proper false logic to suggest losing faith in the SNP = liking the Tories. I fucking hate the tories with every fibre of my being. Thats not going to change. Why would it have to change because I look at the performance of the SNP with dismay? 

[Bairnardo]

3 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I can understand that approach, however my own view would be that without continued 'x' in the box on ballot papers for the SNP, there will be less obvious support for the SNP's objective.  There's an obvious danger in not voting SNP.  Without continued SNP electoral success, there simply won't be a referendum for you to vote "Yes" in. 

Aye and thats the thing that anyone with my mindset has to square up. The current negatives weighed up against the potential positives.

[Glennie]

get yer jab subscription cards out for number 4 already

people actually believed this was going to stop at 2 

 

[Wee-Bey]

10 minutes ago, Abdul_Latif said:

I’m not really seeing anyone say they are doing a 180 and voting conservative.

There's certainly a few hinting at it on here.

10 minutes ago, Abdul_Latif said:

It’s more the case that an increasing number of Indy supporters are feeing politically homeless and will likely abstain at the ballot box for elections, though if a referendum ever comes round again will still support independence.

No doubt, I myself stopped voting SNP pre pandemic.

[welshbairn]

Just now, Kima Greggs said:

There's certainly a few hinting at it on here.

One of the more prolific ones was proposing privatising the NHS to stop them complaining about how busy they were with Covid.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

8 minutes ago, Glennie said:

get yer jab subscription cards out for number 4 already

people actually believed this was going to stop at 2 

 

I dont see the problem with rolling out boosters etc ? 

[HibsFan]

Again, not to put too fine a point on this, but just because it's a real-world example that backs up my slightly idealist 'just ignore the restrictions' mantra:

Iceland supermarket boss saying two things here (and I'm paraphrasing):

1) "Yes, the regulations are that everyone who isn't exempt has to wear masks in Iceland stores."

2) "No, my staff are not going to be the ones who enforce it. They are shopkeepers, not police officers."

That's been one of my biggest frustrations with how Britain* has tried to handle this pandemic, especially last year but continuing into 2021 too.

The utterly futile public spectacle, the theatre, the illusion of 'safety management' that has played out with trying to contain an airborne, respiratory virus.

Putting the onus on hospitality workers - often on minimum wage - to enforce rules they hardly believe in themselves about vertical drinking, or substantial meals, or putting a mask on to walk ten steps to the toilets. Putting the onus on a bus driver to stop some mad anti-masker c**t from boarding a bus because he "refuses to comply like the rest of you sheeple". When the f**k did this become every person's job?

So again, just like the boss of Iceland says: you, me and everyone else know what the rules are telling us we must do. We also know that, throughout this pandemic, the people in charge have been repeatedly seen to break the rules of the day. Cummings, Calderwood, countless others.

They are nonsensical. They are not worth listening to. They are best ignored.

Don't make yourself into some sort of contrarian, 'I will not comply and the kids don't see me any more' dickhead. Just ignore it all as best as you can.

Essentially, every time I hear the Transport for London announcement telling me "you must wear a face covering whilst using TfL services. It's there to protect us all", I give them one of these and move on with my life.

Until someone with the power to fine/caution/arrest me comes along (at which point I will throw a mask on for an easy life), that will be how I go about my life.

I can't recommend it enough, disengaging with COVID and everything attached to it - including this thread since about April 2021 - has been liberating. 

Spoiler

*Not just in Scotland, not just in England, probably best to keep the 'oh the SNP/Tories have handled it so much better!' chat to a minimum when both have been a fucking disaster in very different, but also at times very similar, ways.

 

[Left Back]

11 minutes ago, Glennie said:

get yer jab subscription cards out for number 4 already

people actually believed this was going to stop at 2 

 

Call me a cynic but when the first response is "you need to buy double the amount of product from us for existing boosters" I wonder about their objectivity, especially when they're recommending this without knowing the impacts of omicron.

[bennett]

1 hour ago, WeAreElgin said:

Calling the SNP the "left"

Tbf they have moved towards filling the left gap since labour's support disintegrated.

51 minutes ago, NorthernLights said:

I was at The Garage on Saturday night. It was my first gig in Scotland since March 2020 and it felt so normal it was joyous. Here is a photo the band posted on their Facebook page.

 

I arrived and had to show my vaccine passport, I did stick a mask on while entering but once in the venue it was clear that like my visit to Leeds at the start of the month barely anyone was bothering, even the staff were mostly mask free so back in my pocket it went so I could enjoy the live music with some vertical drinking.

I'd have hated to have attended a gig enforcing social/physical distancing as they looked absolutely awful. Sure the music is a key thing but so is the crowd reaction and the atmosphere it generates. And comparing the above to the below I know which gigs I want to be attending.

 

 

I must be getting old now as I could see myself at that festival with a bivvy chair, carryout and munchies as a one off event. Though I wouldn't want to see it becoming the norm for festivals. 

 

 

[superbigal]

Cases in Scotland down again another 2.11% today.   Still rising in England.