Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[pandarilla]

What are you talking about?
We have recorded the second worst per capita Covid deaths in the world. It's clearly a disaster. 

[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

Speaks volumes.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

What are you talking about?
We have recorded the second worst per capita Covid deaths in the world. It's clearly a disaster. 

Anthony C Pick levels of delusion.

[Billy Jean King]

The 2400 odd number is clearly nonsense.
More excess deaths than Italy is grim. 

Doesn't suit my argument = clearly nonsense. It's very specific for deaths measured under those conditions. The same folk that moaned about "every death being attributed to C19" a few weeks ago are now moaning the figures are too low. You couldn't make it up.

[Detournement]

2 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

2 hours ago, Detournement said:

The 2400 odd number is clearly nonsense.
More excess deaths than Italy is grim. 

Doesn't suit my argument = clearly nonsense. It's very specific for deaths measured under those conditions. The same folk that moaned about "every death being attributed to C19" a few weeks ago are now moaning the figures are too low. You couldn't make it up.

No one else in the world is using a death figure involving a positive test as their headline figure. 

If the Tories would have if they thought they would get away with it but they have been using the Covid related figure. 

The SNP promotion of the 2400 figure is bizarre. 

[renton]

2 minutes ago, Detournement said:

England have decentralised NHS Trusts which I suspect would have been keen to reduce services in the same way that the SNP seem to quite like the idea of reducing schooling. I can recall hearing about doctor's not attending care homes which would obviously have an impact on excess deaths. 

Are there any examples of reporting thresholds or journalism related to this issue? 

I'm a huge fan of how you manage to get an SNPbaaaad in every chance you get, cheeky wee SNP bad for education in a post about Covid is good message discipline.

The FT moved to comparing excess deaths precisely because of the inadequacies of using the ONS figures, your example would have an effect on ONS covid cases, not excess death totals. The simple fact is that excess deaths in England are 20,000 above what is being reported as being killed by Covid. What killed them, if not an epidemic? The NRS figures clearly show that people are indeed staying away from hospital, and dying at home, yet the Scottish figures do not suggest a massive 50% increase between Covid and excess deaths. 

To repeat one more time, we have three sets of figures, one we can compare directly but is obviously an under estimate, one that is subject to reporting variances and is thus not compaeable, and total excess deaths, which is likely the best overall metric. Under that metric Scottish mortality is lower, under the underestimating, but comparable test threshold, Scottish mortality is better.

Note, this is likely due to Scotland being a wee bit behind England in terms of its pandemic progression when lockdown occurred, thus out per capita mortality was a bit lower. That pandemic progression being due to multiple factors like ingress air traffic, population connectivity, all factors we are lower for than England with it's truly global hub, London.

I dont think the Scottish Government had much control on timing which is likely the biggest factor in controlling the ultimate death rate. It did have control on how it spread after lockdown and how it manages the country out of lockdown.

[NotThePars]

16 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

You've had an absolute mare here.

Do you have the balls to admit you were wrong?

That's the sign of a good poster.

Shifting the goal posts to "we've still done really badly so why are the Scottish govt being praised" will not go unnoticed.

 

No the sign of a good poster is never conceding an inch. It's why dozens of grown men have logged on here to speculate on vT's whereabouts every time Morton lost a game.

[renton]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

No one else in the world is using a death figure involving a positive test as their headline figure. 

If the Tories would have if they thought they would get away with it but they have been using the Covid related figure. 

The SNP promotion of the 2400 figure is bizarre. 

SNP promotion? You mean when Sturgeon says pretty much every day that its an under estimate?

[Gordon EF]

The constant "SNP supporters never criticise the SNP / as long as we're doing better than England eh, eh, eh?" bunch are a weird set.

We have a thread where dozens of SNP voters have criticised their response to coronavirus then when a few posters correct H_B's one part determined, two parts gormless attempt to cherry pick any set of mismatched data to show Scotland as faring worse than England, we get...

"SNP supporters never criticise the SNP", "Well as long as we're doing better than England, eh?"

Being so desperate to appear impartial and capable of scrutiny that you're prepared to ignore reality and context isn't the smartest of looks guys.

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

No the sign of a good poster is never conceding an inch. It's why dozens of grown men have logged on here to speculate on vT's whereabouts every time Morton lost a game.

I always check if St Mirren were playing when the site crashes.

[eez-eh]

46 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Incorrect - people are challenging H_B's bullshit.

He is not comparing like with like.

38 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Well it's directly relevant to the point being discussed

 

21 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Did you miss that all of this is in response to a particular claim that Scotland is doing 'worse' than England?

I didn’t mean that in reference to anyone challenging HBs misleading stats. I think people on here have generally been quite good at questioning what the government up here are doing through this.

I just know and have seen a lot of people on social media who only seem to care that we’re managing it better than England. It’s correct to say our hands are tied to an extent but it doesn’t excuse everything. There’s people I’m pretty sure are actively hoping for England to have bad figures every day just so they can feel better about how it’s going up here.

[Detournement]

2 minutes ago, renton said:

I'm a huge fan of how you manage to get an SNPbaaaad in every chance you get, cheeky wee SNP bad for education in a post about Covid is good message discipline.

The FT moved to comparing excess deaths precisely because of the inadequacies of using the ONS figures, your example would have an effect on ONS covid cases, not excess death totals. The simple fact is that excess deaths in England are 20,000 above what is being reported as being killed by Covid. What killed them, if not an epidemic? The NRS figures clearly show that people are indeed staying away from hospital, and dying at home, yet the Scottish figures do not suggest a massive 50% increase between Covid and excess deaths. 

To repeat one more time, we have three sets of figures, one we can compare directly but is obviously an under estimate, one that is subject to reporting variances and is thus not compaeable, and total excess deaths, which is likely the best overall metric. Under that metric Scottish mortality is lower, under the underestimating, but comparable test threshold, Scottish mortality is better.

It's obviously useful to have an idea of who died of the virus and who died because of the lockdown. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-52214177

According to this BBC article the update excess deaths figure is 4917 which puts us at 894 p/m.

(The figure Welsh Bairns posted was out of date). 

[Detournement]

5 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

The constant "SNP supporters never criticise the SNP / as long as we're doing better than England eh, eh, eh?" bunch are a weird set.

We have a thread where dozens of SNP voters have criticised their response to coronavirus then when a few posters correct H_B's one part determined, two parts gormless attempt to cherry pick any set of mismatched data to show Scotland as faring worse than England, we get...

"SNP supporters never criticise the SNP", "Well as long as we're doing better than England, eh?"

Being so desperate to appear impartial and capable of scrutiny that you're prepared to ignore reality and context isn't the smartest of looks guys.

We have had multiple people claiming 2400 Covid deaths in Scotland yet I'm the one having the nightmare.

[Gordon EF]

2 minutes ago, Detournement said:

We have had multiple people claiming 2400 Covid deaths in Scotland yet I'm the one having the nightmare.

We've had multiple people claiming that is the number of confirmed deaths, which is accurate.

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Gordon EF said:

We've had multiple people claiming that is the number of confirmed deaths, which is accurate.

There are another 1700 deaths where it says Covid related on the death certificate. You can't just ignore deaths where the person wasn't tested!

[Detournement]

We are pretty much the same as England in terms of excess deaths. 

That graph clears it up well. 

 

[Gordon EF]

2 minutes ago, Detournement said:

There are another 1700 deaths where it says Covid related on the death certificate. You can't just ignore deaths where the person wasn't tested!

Nobody is doing that. Renton's posts have explained this to you in painstaking detail.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Gordon EF

[welshbairn]

3 minutes ago, Detournement said:

We are pretty much the same as England in terms of excess deaths. 

That graph clears it up well. 

 

Call it a score draw then? There was never much difference anyway, we're both shite.

[Billy Jean King]

No one else in the world is using a death figure involving a positive test as their headline figure. 
If the Tories would have if they thought they would get away with it but they have been using the Covid related figure. 
The SNP promotion of the 2400 figure is bizarre. 

I never mentioned whether the use of that figure as a measurement tool was right or wrong. Point I made to you was it was very clear what the conditions of that measurement were. You dismissed it as nonsense which is your opinion of the methodology. Given the historical health of Scotland as a nation stretching back generations I'm slightly surprised we haven't had more deaths. The high risk conditions are all rife in Scotland plus in the UK as a whole we have a penchant for papping our elderly relatives in Care Homes rather than actually caring for them within the family. That might change after this (but probably won't).

[Gordon EF]

4 minutes ago, Detournement said:

We are pretty much the same as England in terms of excess deaths. 

That graph clears it up well. 

 

Well it's less, isn't it?

[renton]

5 minutes ago, Detournement said:

We are pretty much the same as England in terms of excess deaths. 

That graph clears it up well. 

 

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_score