Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[mizfit]

This latest little exchange is just another example of Todd's entire posting strategy on this thread being exactly that of a conspiracy theorist, which probably isn't surprising given his views on other topics. Start with a position, continue to warp reality to back-up that position as the the evidence builds up against that position, then once the evidence is overwhelming just move on, pretend it never happened and take up another position. It's basically the online posting equivalent guerilla warfare.
People taking up this sort of argument never explain what would actually be acceptable to them, instead preferring the shifting sands approach of saying that what ever is being done now isn't enough. That means that, of course, sometimes he is right and people agree with him, such as the slow initial roll-out of vaccinations, and that buys him a wee bit of authority that means he can just about make through the occasions where he's wrong, such as this attempt to compare apples and oranges, without losing all credibility (though in reality the "over as a public health crisis" stuff should have done that).
You can absolutely guarantee that however many vaccines are being done, however quickly restrictions are lifted, it won't be fast enough for him. Anyone defending the current position for absolutely any reason will be written off as a simp, an SNP fanboy or whatever else. That's what sets Todd and his ilk apart from many others on this forum - we all have a idea in our head of what we'd like to happen, and will adapt that based on the circumstances. Most of us have been critical of the Scottish government on plenty of occasions throughout the last year, based on these views, but have on other occasions felt they were doing the right thing to some extent. The Todds of this world, and also some of the genuine SNP/indy fanboys on the other side, very rarely do anything other than criticise their particular government of choice.

I’ll admit I’m an SNP Voter, was very pissed of With the circuit breaker when it was announced, and with the slow roll out of the vaccine. Won’t defend them on either.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 hour ago, D.A.F.C said:

Australia have had 900 deaths in total you cant compare their situation to ours 

I’ve not? I dont even recall mentioning Australia. Im pretty sure the point i was making was that we cant compare the Isle of Man coming out of lockdown to our approach.

1 hour ago, ayrmad said:

I thought they were isolated rather than being in lockdown, I'd take a year of no ins or outs to Scotland with little to no other restrictions in a heartbeat. 

I wouldnt. 

[ayrmad]

4 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

 

I wouldnt. 

Plenty will agree with both sides on that issue. 

[Elixir]

The BBC are almost being positive today, running with the vaccine news coming out of Israel and the return of summer holidays once vulnerable groups across Europe have been jagged.

Quote

Posted at 10:32

Israel reports promising early vaccine results

EPACopyright: EPA

Israel has inoculated more people per head of population than any other countryImage caption: Israel has inoculated more people per head of population than any other country

Israel has reported promising initial results of its coronavirus vaccination programme, boosting hopes that the jabs used offer a high level of protection against the disease.

Data released by the health ministry last week showed that 317 out of 715,425 people, or 0.04%, became infected a week after becoming fully vaccinated.

Of those who were infected, 16 were admitted to hospital with serious symptoms, the ministry said.

In a separate, smaller trial, Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine was shown to be 92% effective in Israel.

Of the 163,000 Israelis vaccinated by Maccabi Healthcare Services, only 31 were diagnosed with Covid-19 within their first 10 days of full protection.

“This is very, very good news,” vaccine statistics analyst Ekka Zohar told the Times of Israel. “It is the first study in the world that looks at such a large number of fully vaccinated patients.”

Israel has one of the most advanced vaccination programmes in the world, with about 20% of its population fully inoculated.

 

[superbigal]

Or the most likely scenario, it's been offered to them but won't actually be administered for another couple of weeks, which would make it entirely relevant.
There are multiple reasons to criticise the SG's management of the rollout without massively reaching like this. We don't judge the SG's progress based on how many letters have been sent, we judge it on how many people have actually been vaccinated. Therefore if you're making a comparison to somewhere else you compare to how many have been vaccinated as well, not how many have been 'offered' one.

Aye they could send letters out to all 5 million of us and claim it was an offer.
Dear Mr Fucking Mug
We would like to advise you of your upcoming vaccination which will be scheduled for 11am 17th September.
Please note this may change.
Regards
Scotgov

[The Moonster]

46 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Childish patter

Don't really want to join in this shit throwing episode but you spent months last year saying things like "second wavers in tears" at just about anyone who raised concerns about a spike of infections in winter, so it's a bit rich to label others childish here.

[Todd_is_God]

23 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

This latest little exchange is just another example of Todd's entire posting strategy on this thread being exactly that of a conspiracy theorist, which probably isn't surprising given his views on other topics. Start with a position, continue to warp reality to back-up that position as the the evidence builds up against that position, then once the evidence is overwhelming just move on, pretend it never happened and take up another position. It's basically the online posting equivalent of guerilla warfare.

People taking up this sort of argument never explain what would actually be acceptable to them, instead preferring the shifting sands approach of saying that what ever is being done now isn't enough. That means that, of course, sometimes he is right and people agree with him, such as the slow initial roll-out of vaccinations, and that buys him a wee bit of authority that means he can just about make through the occasions where he's wrong, such as this attempt to compare apples and oranges, without losing all credibility (though in reality the "over as a public health crisis" stuff should have done that).

You can absolutely guarantee that however many vaccines are being done, however quickly restrictions are lifted, it won't be fast enough for him. Anyone defending the current position for absolutely any reason will be written off as a simp, an SNP fanboy or whatever else. That's what sets Todd and his ilk apart from many others on this forum - we all have a idea in our head of what we'd like to happen, and will adapt that based on the circumstances. Most of us have been critical of the Scottish government on plenty of occasions throughout the last year, based on these views, but have on other occasions felt they were doing the right thing to some extent. The Todds of this world, and also some of the genuine SNP/indy fanboys on the other side, very rarely do anything other than criticise their particular government of choice.

 

[ICTChris]

One thing that will help us get out of restrictions, including travel restrictions, is to improve the ability of the UK to manufacture vaccines.  There is a government project underway to build a new facility dedicated to vaccines - it was announced in 2018 and it's construction is ongoing.  There are plans to equip it to produce the mRNA vaccines.  This specific type of vaccine is hugely useful in combating any vaccine resistant strains as the technology (so I read, don't ask me how) can be adapted very quickly.  The first vaccine design for Covid was built in two days over a year ago based on a leak of the Covid genome.

If we have faciliites to manufacture huge numbers of adaptable vaccines very quickly then the UK will be in a great position to deal with any future strains.  

[Aladdin]

42 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

So, is the suggestion that there is a lack of storage facilities in Scotland (presumably a large proportion of the doses are of the Pfizer vaccine?) and that's limiting the vaccination rate?

How does that square with the fridges ordered by the Scottish Government (https://news.stv.tv/scotland/big-fridges-ready-for-covid-vaccine-rollout-in-scotland?top) - how many can they hold and are they all in place?

As people have said, if we see a massive increase in the rate this week, its likely that the SG's strategy will be seen as a success.  If we continue to lag behind the rest of the UK, given that the care homes appear all but done, the SG will (rightly) be hammered.

[Todd_is_God]

7 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Don't really want to join in this shit throwing episode but you spent months last year saying things like "second wavers in tears" at just about anyone who raised concerns about a spike of infections in winter, so it's a bit rich to label others childish here.

Actually I didn't. It was aimed at the "wait two weeks" crew when a few people went to a beach in the middle of summer.

I take your overall point though.

[ICTChris]

The fact that three vaccines are manufactured in the UK currently (Astra Zeneca in Oxford, Novovax in Teesdie and Valvena in Livingston) is also very good for dealing with this.

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, Aladdin said:

So, is the suggestion that there is a lack of storage facilities in Scotland (presumably a large proportion of the doses are of the Pfizer vaccine?) and that's limiting the vaccination rate?

I think the suggestion is that they simply haven't asked for them to be sent up because they aren't ready to administer them.

[Ron Aldo]

[Billy Jean King]

The BBC are almost being positive today, running with the vaccine news coming out of Israel and the return of summer holidays once vulnerable groups across Europe have been jagged.

Posted at 10:32

Israel reports promising early vaccine results

EPACopyright: EPA Israel has inoculated more people per head of population than any other countryImage caption: Israel has inoculated more people per head of population than any other country

Israel has reported promising initial results of its coronavirus vaccination programme, boosting hopes that the jabs used offer a high level of protection against the disease.

Data released by the health ministry last week showed that 317 out of 715,425 people, or 0.04%, became infected a week after becoming fully vaccinated.

Of those who were infected, 16 were admitted to hospital with serious symptoms, the ministry said.

In a separate, smaller trial, Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine was shown to be 92% effective in Israel.

Of the 163,000 Israelis vaccinated by Maccabi Healthcare Services, only 31 were diagnosed with Covid-19 within their first 10 days of full protection.

“This is very, very good news,” vaccine statistics analyst Ekka Zohar told the Times of Israel. “It is the first study in the world that looks at such a large number of fully vaccinated patients.”

Israel has one of the most advanced vaccination programmes in the world, with about 20% of its population fully inoculated.

 
Take it you haven't seen their breaking news re community transmission of the SA variant ? Seems it's prompted a mass door to door testing program which suggests to me this fucker is way more dangerous than we are being told !

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

I do enjoy the "aha! Offered only means they have a slot in the next couple of weeks" chat, as though the SG have actually completed their care home roll out.

Ultimately, if there is any time between the last of those offered the vaccine in England actually getting their vaccine, and the last of the care home residents in Scotland actually getting theirs, it'll be about a week.

Hardly a glowing defence of the SG strategy. But another fantastic example of doing everything possible to avoid criticising.

I think that justified criticism of the SG is fine, and to be honest with such a massive logistical exercise it's impossible for any government to get it 100% correct.

But the daily whining from the opposition parties over 'rumours', 'allegations' and whatever else is nothing more than political grandstanding at its worst.

Willie Rennie was on TV last week stating with absolute certainty that 'the SG had 300.000 vaccines sitting in warehouses without being distributed'. When asked where these warehouses were, and how he knew exactly how vaccines were in them', he literally said 'I don't know, but that's what I've heard'. 

Buffalo Bob and the teaboy are the worst of all of course, unquestioningly quoting dubious Westminster figures while attacking Nicola Sturgeon.

Westminster and the SG have pursued different paths in initial vaccinations.  As far as I can tell, we're still a week or two away from the point where justifiable criticisms can be able of either administration, if necessary. 

 

[Billy Jean King]

I think the suggestion is that they simply haven't asked for them to be sent up because they aren't ready to administer them.

They have just confirmed it's a problem with Pfizer storage at GP surgeries and that Scotland has virtually no control over which of the 2 vaccines we get in the makeup of our 8.5% share

Given the reports of folk down south specifically requesting the "British" vaccine it's possible we might be getting a large proportion of Pfizer.

[Mark Connolly]

Looking forward to today's briefing when NS asks "Who wants a vaccine?", and subsequently confirms that's the job done as everyone has been offered it.

[Todd_is_God]

Sounds like a lockdown extension coming tomorrow.

[Elixir]

4 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

 Take it you haven't seen their breaking news re community transmission of the SA variant ? Seems it's prompted a mass door to door testing program which suggests to me this fucker is way more dangerous than we are being told !

I read it as them being proactive at this stage. I highly doubt, given the Kent variant, that the one from South Africa is suddenly going to become dominant in any way given the current restrictions and onset of spring in two or three months.

I'm sure they'll ramp up the fear, though.

[Michael W]

The reaction to the SA varient is worrying. Clearly, they are shitting it over this. 

The Government needs to front up about this, frankly. We've heard some stuff about vaccines May not work as well and I think we're due an explanation. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Michael W