GiGi Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said: People are free to believe whatever storybook they like. It doesn't make them any more important, though. Are you not a climate change denier? And openly laughed at talk of a 2nd wave last year? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 While the point about supporting the community (especially the elderly) is a good point I actually hadn't considered, when it comes down to it the bible actually states that anywhere can be a church and you can pray to God where you like. Fact is, most theories of transmission say that being indoors, siginging/chanting/talking loudly in groups is an ideal situation for the virus to transmit - so it makes no sense to push places of worship to the front of the queue. Has to be said though, the effect on the elderly of lockdown has been fucking brutal. My dad has deteriorated beyond recognition, from pretty mobile, doing his own shopping, out most days a walk, driving etc he's now at the stage where he won't even go to the shop (not fear of virus, just of falling /lack of confidence etc), the car hasn't been started for months and the most he walks is from the chair to the kettle. He doesn't go to church so that doesn't make much difference to him, but there will be thousands of codgers for whom opening the churches again will give them a much needed reason to go out / social occasion and keep the brains active and stuff - plenty of clubs and social events on top of the bible bashing and god bothering. All that said, there is f**k all reason to open them before say hospitality, which performs a similar function for younger people. If one can open, they both can open imo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said: People are free to believe whatever storybook they like. It doesn't make them any more important, though. If gatherings are deemed unsafe in general, then i'm afraid that includes religious ones. No one is saying it makes anyone more or less important, but freedom of religious expression has to be an absolute cornerstone of society and progressive politics. As part of that, it's important to ensure we treat religions and religious people with respect, and recognise what religion brings to peoples lives. Also, no one is saying that we should open up places of worship while we're still at risk. This debate is about what gets to open up first when we're in a position to do so. For what it's worth, I'm not religious. I've never been baptised. The only religious ceremonies I've attended have been Protestant and Catholic weddings and funerals. I'm not arguing this from a position of self-interest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scosha Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Is there any daily figure for the number of people being admitted daily to hospital? While the overall number in there is important, there seems to be a high number of patients currently taking longer to leave hospital. Would be good to know how many are actually being admitted each day as it would surely show the impact of the vaccine? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 This thread is Todd's religion 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, madwullie said: While the point about supporting the community (especially the elderly) is a good point I actually hadn't considered, when it comes down to it the bible actually states that anywhere can be a church and you can pray to God where you like. Fact is, most theories of transmission say that being indoors, siginging/chanting/talking loudly in groups is an ideal situation for the virus to transmit - so it makes no sense to push places of worship to the front of the queue. Has to be said though, the effect on the elderly of lockdown has been fucking brutal. My dad has deteriorated beyond recognition, from pretty mobile, doing his own shopping, out most days a walk, driving etc he's now at the stage where he won't even go to the shop (not fear of virus, just of falling /lack of confidence etc), the car hasn't been started for months and the most he walks is from the chair to the kettle. He doesn't go to church so that doesn't make much difference to him, but there will be thousands of codgers for whom opening the churches again will give them a much needed reason to go out / social occasion and keep the brains active and stuff - plenty of clubs and social events on top of the bible bashing and god bothering. All that said, there is f**k all reason to open them before say hospitality, which performs a similar function for younger people. If one can open, they both can open imo The Bookies likewise is very important for this, however I don't see anyone falling over themselves to reopen Wullie Hills. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, G51 said: No one is saying it makes anyone more or less important, but freedom of religious expression has to be an absolute cornerstone of society and progressive politics. As part of that, it's important to ensure we treat religions and religious people with respect, and recognise what religion brings to peoples lives. That exists here. No one is prevented from freely expressing their religion. Religion is not banned. I don't see why we should prioritise allowing religious groups to gather, however, if all other gatherings are labelled dangerous. They can gather at the same time, and in the same number, as the rest of us can. Edited February 10, 2021 by Todd_is_God 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Is there any daily figure for the number of people being admitted daily to hospital? While the overall number in there is important, there seems to be a high number of patients currently taking longer to leave hospital. Would be good to know how many are actually being admitted each day as it would surely show the impact of the vaccine? NS today said that they have started to record the number of patients who have been in ICU for longer than 28 days as there has been a large growth in that figure. That is hopefully a positive in that these people are not dying and new treatments whilst taking a long time mean people who were dying previously are now hanging in there albeit seriously I'll enough to be in ICU treatment. Presumably new admissions may follow as it is useful as you rightly point out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 No one is saying it makes anyone more or less important, but freedom of religious expression has to be an absolute cornerstone of society and progressive politics. As part of that, it's important to ensure we treat religions and religious people with respect, and recognise what religion brings to peoples lives. Also, no one is saying that we should open up places of worship while we're still at risk. This debate is about what gets to open up first when we're in a position to do so. For what it's worth, I'm not religious. I've never been baptised. The only religious ceremonies I've attended have been Protestant and Catholic weddings and funerals. I'm not arguing this from a position of self-interest.I'd like to think that a person of religion recognises that jobs and livelihoods are far more important than him getting into a building to do his stuff, which he can already do at home. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKMAN Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Appears to be a media blackout regarding vaccination figures the past week or so. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Burnieman said: 6 minutes ago, G51 said: No one is saying it makes anyone more or less important, but freedom of religious expression has to be an absolute cornerstone of society and progressive politics. As part of that, it's important to ensure we treat religions and religious people with respect, and recognise what religion brings to peoples lives. Also, no one is saying that we should open up places of worship while we're still at risk. This debate is about what gets to open up first when we're in a position to do so. For what it's worth, I'm not religious. I've never been baptised. The only religious ceremonies I've attended have been Protestant and Catholic weddings and funerals. I'm not arguing this from a position of self-interest. I'd like to think that a person of religion recognises that jobs and livelihoods are far more important than him getting into a building to do his stuff, which he can already do at home. They do. That's why church services have been online this whole time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distant Doonhamer Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: People are free to believe whatever storybook they like. It doesn't make them any more important, though. If gatherings are deemed unsafe in general, then i'm afraid that includes religious ones. I agree with all of that. That's not the same as saying religion isn't real though. Edited February 10, 2021 by Distant Doonhamer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Todd_Isn't_Prod 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Have some faith in Magic Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Scosha said: Is there any daily figure for the number of people being admitted daily to hospital? While the overall number in there is important, there seems to be a high number of patients currently taking longer to leave hospital. Would be good to know how many are actually being admitted each day as it would surely show the impact of the vaccine? The travelling taby site shows weekly admissions by age updated on a Wednesday. https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/ Just over 500 75 plus last week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said: NS today said that they have started to record the number of patients who have been in ICU for longer than 28 days as there has been a large growth in that figure. That is hopefully a positive in that these people are not dying and new treatments whilst taking a long time mean people who were dying previously are now hanging in there albeit seriously I'll enough to be in ICU treatment. Presumably new admissions may follow as it is useful as you rightly point out. I don't doubt this is probably true, but if they are only just starting to record this, how do they know? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Burnieman said: 8 minutes ago, G51 said: No one is saying it makes anyone more or less important, but freedom of religious expression has to be an absolute cornerstone of society and progressive politics. As part of that, it's important to ensure we treat religions and religious people with respect, and recognise what religion brings to peoples lives. Also, no one is saying that we should open up places of worship while we're still at risk. This debate is about what gets to open up first when we're in a position to do so. For what it's worth, I'm not religious. I've never been baptised. The only religious ceremonies I've attended have been Protestant and Catholic weddings and funerals. I'm not arguing this from a position of self-interest. I'd like to think that a person of religion recognises that jobs and livelihoods are far more important than him getting into a building to do his stuff, which he can already do at home. Jobs and livelihoods can be sustained through UBI and furlough. We have the ability to do that any time we want. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, G51 said: No one is saying it makes anyone more or less important, but freedom of religious expression has to be an absolute cornerstone of society and progressive politics. As part of that, it's important to ensure we treat religions and religious people with respect. Yes, providing freedom of religious expression has brought us all much closer together and taught us respect and compassion for others. 12 minutes ago, G51 said: Wars have been fought and people have died for centuries because of religion. Ah. Religious folk can wait for public gatherings along with the rest of us. If they can worship their god indoors I better be able to watch my team outside. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 51 minutes ago, G51 said: These restrictions are stopping religious worship - that is the point of them. Yes you can pray in your house in some religions, you can't for others. So these restrictions are having a significant, discriminatory impact on people of certain faiths. This must be rectified as quickly as possible. It's not discriminatory. The rules are exactly the same for everyone, regardless of which religion you're a part of or whether you're not part of any religion. Banning something does not discriminate against people who really want to do that thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, MONKMAN said: Appears to be a media blackout regarding vaccination figures the past week or so. It does seem strange that the media peddle, it's all going to shit and then never actually report when it's fixed or indeed exceeding expectations. As for the media in England you would assume they would be pretty vocal critics of the now week long decline in vaccinations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest_Fifer Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 It's not Leitch's decision, it's the Scottish Governments. Religion is clearly more important than non-essential businesses. Religion dictates how a lot of people live their lives. Just because those of us who aren't religious do not necessarily appreciate that doesn't make it less important.Religion is orders of magnitude less important than non essential businesses. If people want to have a word with their invisible friend, they can do it from home. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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