G51 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, The Moonster said: Yes, providing freedom of religious expression has brought us all much closer together and taught us respect and compassion for others. Ah. Religious folk can wait for public gatherings along with the rest of us. If they can worship their god indoors I better be able to watch my team outside. Wars being fought over an intolerance of freedom of religious expression does not prove that religious expression is a bad thing. The opposite, in fact. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 40 minutes ago, G51 said: That is not what secular means. There is nothing in the definition about separation of church and state. Religion should not influence government decision, but that is not relevant to the question being asked. It's what 'secular society' means though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said: I agree with all of that. That's not the same as saying religion isn't real though. Fair point, the wording was poor. What I meant was that the central characters of religion(s) are works of fiction. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, MONKMAN said: Appears to be a media blackout regarding vaccination figures the past week or so. Don't you dare compare England's vaccine figures to anywhere else. This isn't the time for playing politics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest_Fifer Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Definition of secular: not connected with religious or spiritual matters. So it stands - Scotland is a country with many faiths and a significant number of secular people. These restrictions are stopping religious worship - that is the point of them. Yes you can pray in your house in some religions, you can't for others. So these restrictions are having a significant, discriminatory impact on people of certain faiths. This must be rectified as quickly as possible. This effectively comes down to what kind of society we want to be.Which religion doesn't allow you to pray indoors? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 I don't doubt this is probably true, but if they are only just starting to record this, how do they know?I probably worded that wrong, they have decided to start publishing the figures is probably more accurate. She's right in that ICU numbers will be skewed by that cohort. I think she said it was 38 out of the hundred or so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 29 minutes ago, renton said: Data coming out of Israel is encouraging. It took them a while to see the results of vaccinations and they have been obviously chewing through it at a much higher rate than anyone. Whilst its encouraging we need to see data from a country thats vaxed and not in lockdown 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distant Doonhamer Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said: I don't doubt this is probably true, but if they are only just starting to record this, how do they know? The Scottish Intensive Care Society Audit Group (SICSAG) keeps a huge amount of data. That data will be available for figures right through the pandemic. Indeed such data will be available going back many years. It's a fantastic audit data set. The Scot Gov may only now be looking at this (I don't know that) but the data to highlight the number of longer stay ICU stays with Covid, and non-Covid for that matter, will be easily sourced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Which religion doesn't allow you to pray indoors?Buddism, outdoor shrine is in Paisley. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest_Fifer Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Can I get my barber to meet me in a place of worship for a trim? Today's hymns are number 2 on the top, and number 1 round the sides. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Gordon EF said: It's not discriminatory. The rules are exactly the same for everyone, regardless of which religion you're a part of or whether you're not part of any religion. Banning something does not discriminate against people who really want to do that thing. I think it's fair to say that some religions have been better treated than others. Thinking about the contrasting efforts between cancelling Ramadan prayers very quickly, and gearing the entire country towards opening for Christmas Day, causing a spike in infection that every Western country is still recovering from. But that's mostly beside the point. You're right in that, on the face of it, all religions have been treated equally by the ban on indoor gatherings. However, this only holds true if you assume that everyone has equal access to the online services that have replaced them. This is not the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1885 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 It's not true if people believe in it. Something doesn't have to be factual to be true. what? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, G51 said: Jobs and livelihoods can be sustained through UBI and furlough. We have the ability to do that any time we want. Furlough ends 1st May, UBI doesn't exist. So when a hairdressers finally calls it a day on 1st May and makes 3 people redundant because places of worship have now been opened, delaying non-essential business again for another undefined period, you dont care? Edited February 10, 2021 by Burnieman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Distant Doonhamer said: The Scottish Intensive Care Society Audit Group (SICSAG) keeps a huge amount of data. That data will be available for figures right through the pandemic. Indeed such data will be available going back many years. It's a fantastic audit data set. The Scot Gov may only now be looking at this (I don't know that) but the data to highlight the number of longer stay ICU stays with Covid, and non-Covid for that matter, will be easily sourced. I would be shocked if they've not been keeping an eye on those figures for all or most of this pandemic, I'd assume that it's an important figure in the projections. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest_Fifer Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 But religion is, to be quite blunt, not real. We shouldn't be bending over backwards to prioritise and appease people who live their lives based on what a fictional character says.Shit, I agree with Todd about something. Now I feel dirty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 17 minutes ago, G51 said: No one is saying it makes anyone more or less important, but freedom of religious expression has to be an absolute cornerstone of society and progressive politics. As part of that, it's important to ensure we treat religions and religious people with respect, and recognise what religion brings to peoples lives. Also, no one is saying that we should open up places of worship while we're still at risk. This debate is about what gets to open up first when we're in a position to do so. For what it's worth, I'm not religious. I've never been baptised. The only religious ceremonies I've attended have been Protestant and Catholic weddings and funerals. I'm not arguing this from a position of self-interest. Why should I respect people who believe in sky fairies? People who are irrational should be challenged not respected. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, G51 said: I think it's fair to say that some religions have been better treated than others. Thinking about the contrasting efforts between cancelling Ramadan prayers very quickly, and gearing the entire country towards opening for Christmas Day, causing a spike in infection that every Western country is still recovering from. These measures did not apply all over England. London, where I woukd imagine there are more Muslims than anywhere else in the UK, was not affected in the same way Leicester was. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, G51 said: I think it's fair to say that some religions have been better treated than others. Thinking about the contrasting efforts between cancelling Ramadan prayers very quickly, and gearing the entire country towards opening for Christmas Day, causing a spike in infection that every Western country is still recovering from. But that's mostly beside the point. You're right in that, on the face of it, all religions have been treated equally by the ban on indoor gatherings. However, this only holds true if you assume that everyone has equal access to the online services that have replaced them. This is not the case. Nope. It's still not discriminatory, because the rules are still the same for everyone. It's a fair point about Christmas although the lifting of Christmas restrictions was unarguably far more about the 'secular' side of Christmas, rather than the religious side. It was lifted because people wanted to visit their families and have dinner, not because they wanted to go to a church service. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Burnieman said: Furlough ends 1st May, UBI doesn't exist. So when a hairdressers finally calls it a day next month and makes 3 people redundant because places of worship have now been opened, delaying non-essential business again for another undefined period, you dont care? Then this is a government issue that needs to be resolved. It has nothing to do with the prioritisation of what to re-open first - if the government chooses to deliberately tank businesses, then that's their choice. They'll have to deal with the consequences. Nowhere did I say that I didn't care. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Burnieman said: Furlough ends 1st May, UBI doesn't exist. So when a hairdressers finally calls it a day next month and makes 3 people redundant because places of worship have now been opened, delaying non-essential business again for another undefined period, you dont care? The Furlough scheme is actually a bit of a red herring to an extent, basically there's millions now unemployed (and increasing rapidly by the day) who AREN'T furloughed, these people are being handed around £300 per month as opposed to up to £2,500 on the furlough scheme, there's virtually no jobs out there, there's also recruitment freezes on at many of the large employers and things are only going to get worse, with or without furlough. Nobody likes discussing these things as the current outlook is depressing enough, however, we ain't seen nothing yet !! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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