Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Left Back]

4 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Their virtue signalling about "lives or the economy" completely ignores the 450-odd cancer patients who die every day and the countless numbers who are having diagnoses or treatment delayd because of covid restrictions.

There's no attempt to be reasonable about it.

Or retain any sort of perspective.

At all.

We lost under 40 people to covid yesterday.

Some people really need to get a fucking grip and calm doon about covid.

The questions about why our death rate was previously so high are valid though and we should be asking why our government(s) made a monumental c**t of this pre-vaccine.  I know there's a public enquiry planned but I fear it will be so far into the future all this will be forgotten about by then and lessons won't be learned.  One thing that's absolutely certain is that no-one will be held accountable by the public enquiry.

All the above is completely divorced from the question of removing restrictions though and one isn't related to the other.

[Elixir]

Singapore certainly planning to live with Covid and return to normal life, as will the rest of the world. The caring, 'progressive' authoritarian types can either get with reality, or embark on their own self-imposed stasis.

 

[Todd_is_God]

39 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Why do we accept the flu kills tens of thousands of Brits every year, but we can't accept that Covid will?  I've still not had a serious, reasoned answer to this.

Because we have vaccines for flu...

[Elixir]

9 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

You don't do this anyway?

I have a weak bladder. One airport pint can have me bursting and once the seal is broken, don't want to be waiting for the seatbelt sign to go off.

[Caledonian1]

7 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Decades from now, people won't look back in marvel at all.

They'll look back in horror that we restricted treatment and diagnosis of things like cancer at a time where we were seeing less than 40 deaths per day from covid and where we had double vaccinated virtually all of our vulnerable people.

They won't understand why we did that.

It'll baffle laymen and experts alike.

One thing will be crystal clear to them though.

They'll be left in no doubt whatsoever about what is meant by a "Lovejoy" and that you risk utter disaster when you let them dictate what happens during a global pandemic.

I have been on this forum for over a year and see the use of "Lovejoy" by a small band of posters.....still no idea what this means...never heard it used "in real life"

[hk blues]

5 minutes ago, Left Back said:

I'm curious.  Is the media in the Philippines shrieking about this demanding something be done about it to the same level they're talking about Covid?

What do you think? 

However, the high rate of infant mortality is a problem which cannot be resolved as easily as a jab in the arm with a vaccine - it's a symptom of a much deeper-rooted problem and people are resigned to it, sadly.  

[Guest TheJTS98]

10 minutes ago, Elixir said:

Singapore certainly planning to live with Covid and return to normal life, as will the rest of the world. The caring, 'progressive' authoritarian types can either get with reality, or embark on their own self-imposed stasis.

 

This is, of course, a completely invalid comparison.

Singapore has extremely low levels of covid, and when it changes approach (still a month away) its balance of cases to vaccinations will be nothing like the UK profile.

Singapore had ten cases yesterday. They'll be doing this from a base of close to zero daily cases and a two-thirds vaccinated population.

The UK is heading for 50,000 cases a day. Using Singapore to support the UK's policy is laughable.

Apples and oranges.

Edited July 7, 2021 by TheJTS98

[Todd_is_God]

3 minutes ago, Elixir said:

I have a weak bladder. One airport pint can have me bursting and once the seal is broken, don't want to be waiting for the seatbelt sign to go off.

The clicking of seatbelts and, simultaneously, almost every guy on the plane desperately checking how long the toilet queues are

I am 100% one of them

[effeffsee_the2nd]

4 minutes ago, Caledonian1 said:

I have been on this forum for over a year and see the use of "Lovejoy" by a small band of posters.....still no idea what this means...never heard it used "in real life"

the character helen lovejoy from the simpsons, who gossips, acts moraly superior to others  and outrages at the most trivial & harmless things often shutting down any reasonable argument  with her catchphrase "won't somebody please think of the children" 

[hk blues]

22 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

A couple of years, I'd guess at.

 

I tried to do a fag packet calculation but gave up so I'm happy to go with 2 years!  

[Elixir]

12 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

This is, of course, a completely invalid comparison.

Singapore has extremely low levels of covid, and when it changes approach (still a month away) its balance of cases to vaccinations will be nothing like the UK profile.

Singapore had ten cases yesterday. They'll be doing this from a base of close to zero daily cases and a two-thirds vaccinated population.

The UK is heading for 50,000 cases a day. Using Singapore to support the UK's policy is laughable.

Apples and oranges.

Except it isn't, because short of state mandating vaccination, every place which has avoided widespread transmission will have next to no immunity from natural infection. All of these places will have epidemics of varying scale when they open up.

Cheers for having a go anyway.

[Elixir]

10 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

the character helen lovejoy from the simpsons, who gossips, acts moraly superior to others  and outrages at the most trivial & harmless things often shutting down any reasonable argument  with her catchphrase "won't somebody please think of the children" 

Just imagine a bit of patter being restricted to a football forum!

[hk blues]

23 minutes ago, Michael W said:

It's probably indicative of the wider healthcare gap, though. In adulthood as well, people in the UK will have better treatment and therefore should live longer. 

That rate of it is as you say sobering - slightly greater than 1 in 30. Awful. 

It most certainly is - infant mortality is a function of several societal factors, not least the educational level of the mother.  

 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

33 minutes ago, bendan said:

There probably are some valid international comparisons to be made, but the factors you need to take account of are so vast that we can only make very broad brush conclusions.

..or pick and choose which figures suit our arguments?

 

It's the P&B Way.

[Elixir]

It's really The Good Guys on here who are still in an echo chamber.

 

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I honestly believe it's because a lot of people who were at low risk of getting flu and dying suddenly realised that covid might get them and kill them.

This is just human nature.

And yet, their risk remains low.

The problem with absorbing and religiously parroting someone else's point of view without understanding how they have reached it is that, when the data to support that view changes dramatically, they are incapable of updating this view and continue to parrot baseless nonsense.

There was a time when Covid was clearly more dangerous to the population in general than flu. With the vaccines, however, that is no longer the case.

The likes of Chris Whitty do accept that Covid will kill some people, at a level similar to flu.

[craigkillie]

2 hours ago, mizfit said:

 

My girlfriends gran died last April. She was terminally ill with Cancer and had less than 6 months. Her death certificate had Cancer / Covid complications. She tested positive 3 days before and the doctors admitted the Covid just wrecked havoc on her already wrecked lungs.

So from my experience they are putting Covid down where they know it’s had a direct impact. I’d imagine if it was someone who was asymptotic but had a heart attack due to poor diet the cause of death would be heart attack, unless they had evidence to prove Covid had an impact, if that makes sense?

What goes down on the death certificate is different to what is used to count "covid deaths". Our covid deaths figure includes all people who died for any reason after testing positive for covid within the previous 28 days. I have no idea if the same definitions are being used elsewhere in the world.

[bendan]

6 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

..or pick and choose which figures suit our arguments?

 

It's the P&B Way.

Well it's the way of the world. I actually find P&B in general to be a bit better than many parts of the internet for this.

[hk blues]

2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

And yet it's a handful of covid deaths which provokes outcry.

Interesting isn't it?

People only get involved when things start to affect them personally.

2 of the top 10 causes of death here include T.B. and Diabetes - both are easier targets than infant mortality to work on but...

[bendan]

4 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I have no idea if the same definitions are being used elsewhere in the world.

Yes, hugely different ways of counting covid deaths, and also huge differences in the amount of testing going on, huge differences in the ability to gather information from disparate regions within a  country.