Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Compliance will be almost zero.
People will delete the app, ignore phone calls from contact tracing, not bother isolating/getting tested.
Naive of them to think otherwise.

If you are in a workplace and you are told to self-isolate because of contact with another employee you cannot ignore it.

I think the point that is being made is that you cannot continue to have these 10-day isolations if you are saying restrictions are ending - there has to be a better long-term solution.

[ICTChris]

1 hour ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

After this is done, this will be the next thing to turn me into a seething mess, as it’s an absolute certainty that the bollocks public enquiry will absolutely not hold anyone in the UK or Scottish Governments to account for their appalling decision making in the early stages of this and the huge number of lives it has cost.

One thing I read about the early stages of the pandemic was that it was also a failure of the media.  The UK and Scottish governments followed a plan that was accepting of six figure deaths.  They went on television to explain it, pretty specifically, and the media didn't really say much about it.  There were isolated voices but they were just that, isolated.  There was a lot of talk about hipster epidemiologists IIRC.

At the time I remember having nagging doubts.  I read a paper by Nassim Taleb and others that said the UK government position was crazy, I remember reading an article about 'herd immunity by infection' that was pretty persuasive  but I think I just wanted to believe what was being said, it seemed logical, it made sense and it seemed to be the consensus among the scientific authorities.  It turned out to be disasterously wrong and our politicians and media didn't pick it up.  It's obviously a bit of a tangential issue but one that needs to be thought about.  I doubt it will though.

Edited July 7, 2021 by ICTChris

[hk blues]

5 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

If you are in a workplace and you are told to self-isolate because of contact with another employee you cannot ignore it.

I think the point that us being made is that you cannot continue to have these 10-day isolations if you are saying restrictions are ending - there has to be a better long-term solution.

The isolations are not considered as part of the restrictions are they?  It's the same with the travel policies - they will continue beyond July 16th

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

2 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

The jealousy absolutely ripping out of our posters from the other side of the globe that their shan governments have completely arsed up the ordering (and subsequent roll out) of the vaccines which absolutely cigar the virus I see.

The high horse has bolted.

What im getting is that apparently for wanting restrictions lifted when safe to do so and supported by a vaccine roll out with an ultimate lifting of early August, that im somehow a far right Daily Mail reader. Lets ignore the fact that we have people on the left in labour etc supporting positions which would make Mussolini blush, wanting restrictions until the virus magically vanishes or Indy Sage invent a time machine and nuke Wuhan, somehow being slightly more pro-libertarian in your approach makes us the mad ones. 
If we dont roll restrictions back before the winter then I feel that we will be in them for at least another 9 months to next april/may.

Im happy to support people wearing masks, I dont think they work all that well, but if sticking one on going into the shop stops folk having a stroke then fair enough, its a bit like the safety briefing on a plane, its safety theatre, but doesnt really hurt me by playing along, id personally rather have a little bit of exposure to seasonal viruses etc to build up immunity (then again id not be daft enough to go into work whilst unwell). 

The vaccines work, yes there is an exit wave and i support the continuing of isolation to help cut that down, but at what stage do the people screaming ‘wont someone think of the children?’ suggest we actually open up?

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

 

And don't get me wrong, I hate myself for using it.

I can't thnk of a better word to encapsulate these shrieking buffoons though.

The Simpsons (early series at least) is the greatest social commentary ever put on TV so just embrace it, you’ve tried nothing and you’re all out of ideas. 

[101]

13 minutes ago, gav-ffc said:

Would this not trim that down a bit 

https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1412380419148894211?s=21

Aye a month after they have had "Freedom Day" just got to hope the cases don't rise to quickly before Test to release come in play. You would also imagine those being told to isolate are likely to be young people without the option, potentially until September, won't be able to test to release.

13 minutes ago, anotherchance said:

Compliance will be almost zero.

People will delete the app, ignore phone calls from contact tracing, not bother isolating/getting tested.

Naive of them to think otherwise.

Yeh most likely depends if they keep harping on about 10 years in jail etc.

That said the Tories have royally fucked the judicial system in England/ Wales so difficult to see them doing any enforcement.

[strichener]

1 hour ago, Cyclizine said:

Last flu season before Covid the UK had about 3000 ICU admissions for influenza with a roughly 10% mortality. English figures show about 1200 deaths from influenza in total, not "tens of thousands".

With Covid we have had over 35,000 ICU admissions with nearly 40% mortality. Many more ended up in hospital and many died in the community.

Covid is not the flu.

How many people died within 28 days of a positive flu test.  I know we don't have numbers for that.

Covid is not the flu nor is it being treated statistically like any other condition.

How many cancer patients dies within 28 days of breaking their leg?  How many patients died falling off a ladder within 28 days of being diagnosed with liver disease etc. etc.

The two are not comparable as they are not treated the same.

49 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

There's no evidence this is the case, influenza is a cause of pneumonia itself. Hospital admissions for pneumonia will routinely be tested for atypical infections, including influenza viruses. The cause of death in the case of someone dying from a superadded bacterial pneumonia on top of influenza would be something like:

I(a) Staphylococcus aureus pneumonia (b) Influenza A infection

The influenza is the ultimate cause of death and is recorded in statistics. Same way as if someone was in a car crash,  shattered their legs and then got a blood clot and died from a pulmonary embolism. Yes, they died because you had a PE, but the ultimate cause of death was a car crash.

This it adds credence to the nonsense that is Covid deaths.

Edited July 7, 2021 by strichener

[Billy Jean King]

Would this not trim that down a bit 
https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1412380419148894211?s=21

We were talking about the 4 week period before that comes in, could be carnage for that spell.

[Billy Jean King]

Compliance will be almost zero.
People will delete the app, ignore phone calls from contact tracing, not bother isolating/getting tested.
Naive of them to think otherwise.

Starmer making exactly that point right now at PMQs. It's only going to fuel the cases though which in turn will see us shunned abroad despite us relaxing those restrictions.

[Michael W]

There's absolutely no doubt that isolations are going to increase and will be a monumental pain the arse until the rules on this change. The difference of running this case rate against previously is that we aren't in total lockdown and therefore the amount of healthy people being pinged will increase. 

A friend of ours is now in isolation until Wednesday, as she was pinged via the app for contact with a positive case on Saturday. She insists that she hasn't left her house, so we can only conclude that it's her neighbour (even though there is a wall between them). I'm sure more of this is going to happen. 

People probably will delete the app and remove this possibility from happening. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Michael W

[DeeTillEhDeh]

There's absolutely no doubt that isolations are going to increase and will be a monumental pain the arse until the rules on this change. The difference of running this case rate against previously is that we aren't in total lockdown and therefore the amount of healthy people being pinged will increase. 
A friend of ours is now in isolation until Wednesday, as she was pinged via the app for contact with a positive case on Saturday. She insists that she hasn't left her house, so we can only conclude that it's her neighbour (even though there is a wall between them). I'm sure more of this is going to happen. 
People probably will delete the app and remove this possibility from happening. 

It's self-isolations where there are contacts in the workplace that will be the real issue.

Employers just can't ignore the rules how much they may disagree with them. Firms can be fined if they knowingly allow an employee to attend who has been identified as a close contact.

[Big Fifer]

Can't help but feel the concept of isolating will be all but over (in England) by that August date. The people who have been double jagged won't need to, the folk that don't want vaxxed will likely be the same folk that'll ignore the isolation anyway. Frankly track and trace needs binned at the earliest opportunity. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 minute ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

8 minutes ago, Michael W said:

There's absolutely no doubt that isolations are going to increase and will be a monumental pain the arse until the rules on this change. The difference of running this case rate against previously is that we aren't in total lockdown and therefore the amount of healthy people being pinged will increase. 
A friend of ours is now in isolation until Wednesday, as she was pinged via the app for contact with a positive case on Saturday. She insists that she hasn't left her house, so we can only conclude that it's her neighbour (even though there is a wall between them). I'm sure more of this is going to happen. 
People probably will delete the app and remove this possibility from happening. 

It's self-isolations where there are contacts in the workplace that will be the real issue.

Yep, especially in places where social distancing is impossible. I know of firemen and police officers forced to isolate despite wearing ffp3 masks yet ambulance staff arent forced to in similar circumstances. The guidance genuinely doesnt make sense and there is no way to challenge it effectively. 

[Billy Jean King]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57748815

Tories doing what Tories do

[Honest_Man#1]

9 minutes ago, Michael W said:

There's absolutely no doubt that isolations are going to increase and will be a monumental pain the arse until the rules on this change. The difference of running this case rate against previously is that we aren't in total lockdown and therefore the amount of healthy people being pinged will increase. 

A friend of ours is now in isolation until Wednesday, as she was pinged via the app for contact with a positive case on Saturday. She insists that she hasn't left her house, so we can only conclude that it's her neighbour (even though there is a wall between them). I'm sure more of this is going to happen. 

People probably will delete the app and remove this possibility from happening. 

Prime example of why the app was deleted ages ago. I’ve also started not doing track and trace at venues because there will undoubtedly be tracing through that as infections increase. Only other thing is workplace but I’m lucky that workplace has a small team and we distance so wouldn’t be naming each other as a contact if testing positive.

[Michael W]

1 minute ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

8 minutes ago, Michael W said:

There's absolutely no doubt that isolations are going to increase and will be a monumental pain the arse until the rules on this change. The difference of running this case rate against previously is that we aren't in total lockdown and therefore the amount of healthy people being pinged will increase. 
A friend of ours is now in isolation until Wednesday, as she was pinged via the app for contact with a positive case on Saturday. She insists that she hasn't left her house, so we can only conclude that it's her neighbour (even though there is a wall between them). I'm sure more of this is going to happen. 
People probably will delete the app and remove this possibility from happening. 

It's self-isolations where there are contacts in the workplace that will be the real issue.

Agreed. And as a result I don't think that we're going to see a huge rush back to the office for this reason. Whilst people can easily work from home (provided that they are not unwell), having your staff isolated is not a desirable situation for a whole number of business reasons, especially if some attempt at normal (e.g. F2F meetings) is attempted. 

F2F settings like retail, restaurants etc will take a battering as well. 

I am not quite sure why there's the delay in changing the guidance, but I don't think it's been thought through. This is a temporary problem, albeit one that will be significant. 

[strichener]

3 hours ago, TheJTS98 said:

And at the end we get to the crux of it. Casual acceptance of the preventable deaths of a not-even-estimated number of people in your country.

All that went before that is just this thread on repeat.

How many people died yesterday because of Covid restrictions?   Or let's make it even simpler - how many people died yesterday because of Covid?

Given you hysterics about preventable deaths, I assume that you are lobbying the government to remove the right to cross a road until all roads have underpasses or bridges for pedestrian crossings?  Can't be too careful now as every death crossing a road is preventable and not doing so will lead to the death of  "not-even-estimated number of people in your country."

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

It's self-isolations where there are contacts in the workplace that will be the real issue.

Employers just can't ignore the rules how much they may disagree with them. Firms can be fined if they knowingly allow an employee to attend who has been identified as a close contact.

Yes, Business will drive the "self isolation" needs out of the window, simply because it's impossible to run any sort of business or plan anything when the following day your entire workforce could be "out the game" for 10 days.

All it's going to take is someone on your bus, tube, train, staff restaurant or workplace to test positive and then the game's a bogey !!

Edited July 7, 2021 by WATTOO

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

7 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57748815

Tories doing what Tories do

Its peak Tory c**t behaviour when even IDS thinks it's wrong.

[Elixir]

35 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

Your assertion that there's a valid comparison to be made between a country with a good vaccination roll-out, ten cases a day, and an excellent record of looking after its population and a country with a good vaccination roll-out and 50,000 cases a day, with a shite record of keeping its public alive.

You're simply clutching at straws.

But it's a total waste of time engaging. I don't have time for the pile-on. Enjoy your day.

Of course there's a valid comparison - what do you think is going to happen unless there is near universal uptake of vaccination in places like Singapore? There will be a much larger pool of people in these places with no crossover prior immunity from natural infection who are susceptible. Transmission is cut by these vaccines, but it is not sterilising. When these places open up, cases will subsequently rise and the virus will find them. Furthermore, as good as the vaccines are, they are not 100% effective against death - meaning there will be more vulnerable people who haven't already succumbed in a population with largely only vaccine induced immunity, compared to those who have sadly already died here.

A reminder that in places like the UK where ~90% of the population now has antibodies to Covid (ONS), sky high 'case numbers' do not mean sky high severe illness and death any more - instead people will largely have little to no symptoms or be sick in front of the TV for a few days.

[Aladdin]

Surely some form of testing if you have not been vaccinated could cut the 10 day period.  

You get pinged, if you have been double jabbed you ignore it, if not you are eligible for a  PCR 24 hours after being pinged which, if negative, means you don't have to isolate.

Not ideal and would likely miss some cases but would cut it from 10 days to about 72 hours.