Michael W Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Real world data was already readily from South Africa for what happens if you carry on as previously during an omicron wave and allow it to peak with no extra restrictions but for whatever reason they chose to ignore that and listen instead to attention seeking computer modelling types with a track record of pushing worst case scenarios on the basis of very flimsy reasoning. What has unfolded over the last few days is laughable. Thing is, I do get the treating of the SA data with caution. Comparisons between countries can be very hard, even amongst countries that are roughly equivalent. Take France, for example - significantly more covid patients in hospital than the UK despite the UK carrying a much higher caseload over a period of months. Sometimes things don't match very well. However, what we seem to have done is this: 1) Look at how quickly it spread in South Africa! Shit. That will happen here too. 2) Hospitals aren't filing up like they did under the previous wave. Hmm, disregard that. In other words, we selected a couple of bits, coincidentally the bad bits, and ignored the rest. Even currently we are on week 3 of omicron and whilst there has been an overall rise in hospitalisations, it is not matching the growth in cases. I can also accept South Africa is not a good comparator for the UK. They have a lot of absolute poverty in the country (3rd world poverty, not developed world poverty) and a large number of the population (c17%) is immunocompromised as a result of HIV/AIDS. I am not sure how access to medical care is, but I would imagine it's not quite on par with European systems. Additionally, around 25% of their population is fully vaccinated, substantially lower than the UK. All of the above are negative comparators against the UK. If the hospitals in South Africa aren't filling up, you can be quite assured that the UK is unlikely to start seeing massive rises. Naturally the one downside we have against South Africa is that we have a much older population, who are more at risk. Even then, our vaccine coverage reduces the risk of hospitalisation/death substantially. It is extremely painful that we've just looked at the positives there and disregarded them but have bought into all the bad without question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Detournement said: It will be 7 by the end of 2022 guaranteed. A 4th just now. An Omicron doubler in the summer to go on holiday then the new variant will pop up like clockwork in the winter. And when next winters variant pops up we will again be locked down due to the folk not getting vaccinated Must be made legal requirement -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Because we don't live in a fascist state which punishes people for their medical choices, whether we agree with them or not. Those people are punishing the entire population by their medical choices 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 Fines were handed out to people earlier in the year for going for a walk in a different post code Yet no action is taken against people who will not take a vaccine -7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_blueco Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Binos said: Those people are punishing the entire population by their medical choices Are we not at about 90 percent vaccinated with the first dose ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Binos said: Those people are punishing the entire population by their medical choices This is a pretty fundamental pillar of our society. Legally enforced medical procedures is a very dangerous road. A road that we’ve already started heading down, mind. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 The answer to my earlier question is out. Around ¾ of the people in hospital with covid are receiving treatment for it. Encouragingly, though, this number is dropping. Would I be right in saying this suggests that many of the new admissions over the last week fall into the with bracket? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, Binos said: And when next winters variant pops up we will again be locked down due to the folk not getting vaccinated Must be made legal requirement Makes no difference if we are going to again disrupt the health service's ability to function by preventing healthy staff from coming to work, then claiming we need restrictions to prevent the health service being overwhelmed because they don't have enough staff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Left Back said: That seems incredibly naïve. As you say there are a load of people who will support the SNP regardless of what they do. They have control of Holyrood and 4.5 years left of that term. It's hardly a crisis for the SNP. She comes across as too egotistical to step down but also more importantly who on earth would replace her? Swinney? No ta. That wee lassie who is now Finance Minister because the previous Finance Minister was a nonce? No ta. Labour? Tories? That’s it. Pick anyone you like. Only dangerous oddball types go into politics. Granny Danger was a councillor. Nuff said. Edited December 23, 2021 by Scary Bear 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_blueco Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said: This is a pretty fundamental pillar of our society. Legally enforced medical procedures is a very dangerous road. A road that we’ve already started heading down, mind. Aye not something I can ever see myself getting behind without making it compulsory we are already the most vaccinated country in the planet . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Forever_blueco said: Are we not at about 90 percent vaccinated with the first dose ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 A vaccine mandate would make absolutely no difference to vaccine uptake, and would be much more likely to entrench positions among people who could genuinely be persuaded to take the vaccine. Not to mention that it's also obviously fash. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: The public health Scotland dashboard has it even further above that. Still around 1.5k first doses being done daily. I still think vaccination to get on holiday will sweep up the last of the reticent, leaving a small core of anti vaxers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 31 minutes ago, Forever_blueco said: This has to be the end for sturgeon completely fucked it . Any other politician would be hounded but she does still have her weird cult like fan boys and girls Leaving aside what anyone thinks about their respective approaches, it's similar to Boris. You will just get loads of people saying that "he/she's doing his/her best!" and add to that "I am not going to blame her for wanting to be safe rather than sorry!". Some folk may well still change their opinions on her, though. Just not that many because too many "admire her" rather than expecting her to do a good job re this or other policies. When you do admire someone, you will let them away with being rubbish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, Binos said: Those people are punishing the entire population by their medical choices They are primarily punishing themselves. Whilst you can still get it and all the rest of it whilst vaccinated, the chances of a severe infection are greatly reduced. We are dealing with a virus that, whether people like it or not, is now endemic. It's not going away and we are all going to be infected with it during our lifetime, almost certainly on numerous occasions. Immunity through vaccine and prior infection will continue to build. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 I wonder what today’s numbers will be and how they will be spun if still no sign of The Tsunami. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, Forever_blueco said: Are we not at about 90 percent vaccinated with the first dose ? The vast majority of people in hospital are unvaccinated apparently 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeJay Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 22 minutes ago, Binos said: The uk govt are already doing this for anyone who requires to go into a nursing home Cost of care, £1k per week, taken off the forced sale of your house after you pass away So why couldn't this same principle be applied to unvaccinated people who are now effectively holding the country to ransom While we're at it, let's fine everyone who didn't get their flu jab in the last 20 years. God knows how many deaths they caused by failing to quarantine, failing to wear a mask and going about their life as normal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, Binos said: Those people are punishing the entire population by their medical choices Vaccined twice and awaiting a booster. However, it is not quite right to say that these folk are punishing the population, rather political leaders are punishing the rest of us through their political choices (but are delighted that the un-vaxed will take the blame as a population divided won't turn on them instead). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: Makes no difference if we are going to again disrupt the health service's ability to function by preventing healthy staff from coming to work, then claiming we need restrictions to prevent the health service being overwhelmed because they don't have enough staff. There would be no need for a pingdemic if we understood infection did not result in hospitalisation 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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