League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[DeeTillEhDeh]

You have by buying Dundee’s vote!
if hearts win the case & the teams who were voted champions / promoted are denied then their case will be with the SPFL surely. 

Another moron suckered in by the fake invoice.

[rainbowrising]

29 minutes ago, Gorgie greatness said:

You have by buying Dundee’s vote!

if hearts win the case & the teams who were voted champions / promoted are denied then their case will be with the SPFL surely. 

So what exactly have we been bought with? Please hazard a guess since you are trotting out this conspiracy? I think we are entitled to see something to back up this utter shite? 

[Bazil85]

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

This hypothetical scenario is possible but if McLean stayed at rangers would this not give another kid a chance to take his place at St Mirren?
As I've said before Celtic will look for the best they can get and will release and buy players from 16 to 20 to fill their quota.
With project brave in place they have the pick of all the young talent within that system from elite level on the performance pathway.
Kenny McLean was sold for around £350k by St Mirren, he is now a £10 million rated player, if he was to sell for that, we would get in the region of a further £250k (maybe more if we had a sell-on with Aberdeen which I'm not sure about). He is currently one of the top five biggest transfers we have ever had  with a chance of being top three. He was also important in getting us to a cup final which we won, our first in 26 years. Can you see how getting a different player isn't much of an incentive to me to get colts in the league structure? There is no benefit to other teams when you look at the negatives. 

Your point on Celtic shows we are on the same side regarding why it's not in other clubs interest to get colts in the league. Celtic will no doubt do the same for players that fall into the colt quota, very likely more so given they would have an extra carrot of first team football.

I'm pretty sure it's 8 Scots to a 25 man squad across Europe for me that is not xenophobic one third of the team.
Your idea was 8 out of the first 11 apart from restricting managers who they can pick and who they can't pick it's xenophobic and not inclusive.
You could maybe get away with 6 out of the first 11 but it is far too radical, 4 Scots in the first 11 is in line with the rest of Europe. 
It is not 8 Scots, it's 8 homegrown players, their nationality is irrelevant. You're the one bringing nationality into this. But fair compromise, let's start with us doing eight in a 25 man squad and how about three that are still U21 in the starting line up? The problem we had with the previous rules is teams just left three boys on the bench. Let's move that up a notch and get them in starting 11s. Same rules, shifted goalposts. That isn't xenophobic. this is the only scenario where I would be open to the colts, it would show bigger teams taking commitment to develop young players as well, not just putting it onto colt teams that will serve no tangible purpose at international level. Some clear progress routes are possible. Colts in L2, the best three into starting 11s in SP clubs, hopefully they reach a level where they can move onto better leagues. I wouldn't be happy with it (because it could easily be done without colts) but it shows compromise. 

This idea has be going around for a while the problem is how it would work, with project brave in place you could have your top 80 players from the age of 18.
For me this would only work with full time clubs and full time coaches whether this was through strategic partnerships or through the loan system.
Using 20 clubs each club gets 4 players on a yearly contract, putting them into categories from goalkeeper,defender,midfielder and striker picking one from each.
The draft would give players a goal from 16 when they sign their first professional contract with a cap on the wage structure.
Or we implement rules forcing the biggest clubs to reevaluate their youth academies.

Just WOW and Whoosh to this comment the only place I'm going to judge players is at international level.
If you don't understand that players can be impacted by the level of quality around them, fine. 

It's not a point the finger of blame, it's constructive criticism on where he can improve his game McTominey's reading of the game out of possession without the ball is terrible.
I agree the SFA has to take the blame for treating the national team like a part time job,After Strachan left with nearly a year without defeat the appointment of McLeish killed the momentum stone dead plus the stupid friendlies half way across the world.

You base that on no more than a handfull of games with the majority being at international level (see previous point). McTominay is hands down the best Scottish midfielder in world football right now. The only person close is McGinn.

Our debate has been pretty civil there is no need for having a wee pop,Armstrong was at Celtic for about 5 minutes in his career.
The point I was making was he should've been in the national team well before 25 this isn't due to his lack of ability it's down to the manager in place at the time.
I think it's pretty clear, it isn't a criticism. I am assuming you have seen far more of Armstrong than any other EPL based Scottish midfielder. Your view is likely scewed by how good he looked up here in a very poor league environment. It is accurate though, 19-20 players in every Scotland squad aren't good enough for where we should be. 

For me this is play station crap not reality, if McTominey replaced Brown on the 1st of august Celtic would be a poorer team.
This would be an example of running before you can walk, I've no problem with getting players into the national setup as quick as possible this progressive thinking has been lacking for years.

That is utter nonsense. He would be the first name on the team sheet every single game and vastly improve your midfield. You again are basing him off a handful of internationals and one or two EPL games. If you look at Scott Brown only in a Scotland jersey he is bang average (at best, often very poor and out his depth) as well, that's because at international level he is far from the required standard. McTominay playing at SP level clubs would be player of the year by Christmas. 

Sending our best talent to other countries doesn't help the game in Scotland,this is the biggest problem we have here, players will always want to play at the highest level possible.
The only way to slow this process down is to produce more talent to maintain the level we have, I don't know what you've been watching over the past two seasons but for me the top flight has improved from bottom to top.
Our top talent failing at other countries is the issue, not them getting there. The top flight improving in Scotland is like someone that takes up boxercise to improve their fitness then goes into a world championship fight. Yeah they probably will get fitter but they are miles off the competition. Scottish football has got slightly better last two or three years but that's still a drop from where it was 10, 15, 20 years ago. It's off a cliff from where we were in the 60s and 70s relatively. 

It isn't good enough, that's reflected in the coefficient and the only option the national team has to improve, is to have a pool of players far too good for Scottish football. Easier said than done but the colts wont help with that. All they'll do is progress to clubs at the cost of all others while causing likely thousands of fans to turn their back on Scottish football. It's done, it's a no again and if the appetite is anything to go by, it'll remain a no. Time for Rangers & Celtic to learn lessons and bin the idea for good. 

 

 

 

[Aim Here]

33 minutes ago, rainbowrising said:

So what exactly have we been bought with? Please hazard a guess since you are trotting out this conspiracy? I think we are entitled to see something to back up this utter shite? 

I believe it's more in the line of blackmail. Lawwell is suspected of holding certain incriminating negatives that might cast unwelcome light on John Nelm's previous business dealings. It's just idle speculation and rumour, though.

[rainbowrising]

1 hour ago, Aim Here said:

I believe it's more in the line of blackmail. Lawwell is suspected of holding certain incriminating negatives that might cast unwelcome light on John Nelm's previous business dealings. It's just idle speculation and rumour, though.

Aw come on! Us and Saddam were pals for years before Nelms

 

[Green Day]

3 hours ago, Aim Here said:

since most of the case revolves about how a "reasonable member" would have voted

This guy? He has certainly behaved like a total member..........

[welshbairn]

 

[realmadrid]

4 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

This hypothetical scenario is possible but if McLean stayed at rangers would this not give another kid a chance to take his place at St Mirren?
As I've said before Celtic will look for the best they can get and will release and buy players from 16 to 20 to fill their quota.
With project brave in place they have the pick of all the young talent within that system from elite level on the performance pathway.
 

 

I'm pretty sure it's 8 Scots to a 25 man squad across Europe for me that is not xenophobic one third of the team.
Your idea was 8 out of the first 11 apart from restricting managers who they can pick and who they can't pick it's xenophobic and not inclusive.
You could maybe get away with 6 out of the first 11 but it is far too radical, 4 Scots in the first 11 is in line with the rest of Europe. 
 

 

This idea has be going around for a while the problem is how it would work, with project brave in place you could have your top 80 players from the age of 18.
For me this would only work with full time clubs and full time coaches whether this was through strategic partnerships or through the loan system.
Using 20 clubs each club gets 4 players on a yearly contract, putting them into categories from goalkeeper,defender,midfielder and striker picking one from each.
The draft would give players a goal from 16 when they sign their first professional contract with a cap on the wage structure.
 

 

Just WOW and Whoosh to this comment the only place I'm going to judge players is at international level.
 

 

It's not a point the finger of blame, it's constructive criticism on where he can improve his game McTominey's reading of the game out of possession without the ball is terrible.
I agree the SFA has to take the blame for treating the national team like a part time job,After Strachan left with nearly a year without defeat the appointment of McLeish killed the momentum stone dead plus the stupid friendlies half way across the world.

 

Our debate has been pretty civil there is no need for having a wee pop,Armstrong was at Celtic for about 5 minutes in his career.
The point I was making was he should've been in the national team well before 25 this isn't due to his lack of ability it's down to the manager in place at the time.
 

 

For me this is play station crap not reality, if McTominey replaced Brown on the 1st of august Celtic would be a poorer team.
This would be an example of running before you can walk, I've no problem with getting players into the national setup as quick as possible this progressive thinking has been lacking for years.

 

Sending our best talent to other countries doesn't help the game in Scotland,this is the biggest problem we have here, players will always want to play at the highest level possible.
The only way to slow this process down is to produce more talent to maintain the level we have, I don't know what you've been watching over the past two seasons but for me the top flight has improved from bottom to top.
 

 

 

The table below should be given to any young player and then they can make up their mind where they would be given a chance.

The Joke in the reconstruction is that two of the teams who don't give young Scottish players a chance wanted to bribe their way into the lower leagues for the sake of the national team.

They are the last place any young talent should go. If you are good enough play first team football and you will get your move, but being one of their own products counts for nothing.

Data from the @thebackpassRule twitter account.

[AndyDD]

3 minutes ago, realmadrid said:

The table below should be given to any young player and then they can make up their mind where they would be given a chance.

The Joke in the reconstruction is that two of the teams who don't give young Scottish players a chance wanted to bribe their way into the lower leagues for the sake of the national team.

They are the last place any young talent should go. If you are good enough play first team football and you will get your move, but being one of their own products counts for nothing.

Data from the @thebackpassRule twitter account.

Ross county and Killie want to get their finger out anawl. 

St Johnstone lead the way, but that you can be leading the way with 23-24% is a problem all of it's own. 

Must do better right across the board. 

[wastecoatwilly]

31 minutes ago, realmadrid said:

The table below should be given to any young player and then they can make up their mind where they would be given a chance.

The Joke in the reconstruction is that two of the teams who don't give young Scottish players a chance wanted to bribe their way into the lower leagues for the sake of the national team.

They are the last place any young talent should go. If you are good enough play first team football and you will get your move, but being one of their own products counts for nothing.

Data from the @thebackpassRule twitter account.

i take it Celtic wouldn't get credit for Henderson at Ross County or Ralston at St Johnstone.
But I agree it isn't good enough plus I think Mikey Johnston would have played more barring injuries.

Edited June 25, 2020 by wastecoatwilly

[ropy]

Clubs are rebuilding their squads for next season, working out their formations and the tactics that will work best for them.  Do you think any team will use the approach of hugging the bottom of the league until the last 8 games, throw off their cloaks of inadequacy and rocket up the league in the final few weeks.

[grumswall]

Clubs are rebuilding their squads for next season, working out their formations and the tactics that will work best for them.  Do you think any team will use the approach of hugging the bottom of the league until the last 8 games, throw off their cloaks of inadequacy and rocket up the league in the final few weeks.

Depends if hearts win the case or not

[tree house tam]

17 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

i take it Celtic wouldn't get credit for Henderson at Ross County or Ralston at St Johnstone.
But I agree it isn't good enough plus I think Mikey Johnston would have played more barring injuries.

Why would they? They're not playing them and have no intention of doing so..

[Ludo*1]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

 

Celtic and Rangers fans will be desperately trying to figure out 'Whauz Lord Clark's big team tho?'

[wastecoatwilly]

16 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Why would they? They're not playing them and have no intention of doing so..

Yep I think if the chart just said U23's French Eddie,Ajer and Frimpong would make it look very different.

[Bazil85]

10 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Yep I think if the chart just said U23's French Eddie,Ajer and Frimpong would make it look very different.

Which is another reason not to have the colt teams in the structure, there is nothing to guarantee it would support developing young Scottish players to any level let alone the level we need.

As for your previous points on players loaned out, no they shouldn't get credit, this is about clubs willingness to support a much needed improvement in developing Scottish players for us to be more competitive at international level. There is currently little to no will for that at Celtic or Rangers. The proposal highlights this. 

[Aim Here]

17 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Celtic and Rangers fans will be desperately trying to figure out 'Whauz Lord Clark's big team tho?'

Won't take them long. In his Advocate career, he's represented the Roofing company that sued Craig Whyte, represented the News of the World against Militant-Revolutionary-turned-Embarrassing-Celtic-Da Tommy Sheridan and represented two Rangers players and Aly McCoist in some SFA hearing...

[itzdrk]

19 minutes ago, Aim Here said:

Won't take them long. In his Advocate career, he's represented the Roofing company that sued Craig Whyte, represented the News of the World against Militant-Revolutionary-turned-Embarrassing-Celtic-Da Tommy Sheridan and represented two Rangers players and Aly McCoist in some SFA hearing...

Also this handy link 

[craigkillie]

Ross county and Killie want to get their finger out anawl. 
St Johnstone lead the way, but that you can be leading the way with 23-24% is a problem all of it's own. 
Must do better right across the board. 

This idea only works if you think you should develop players until the age of 23 then immediately get rid of them for new players.

The season before we would have had 3 first team regulars in that category, all of whom made it into the Scotland squad. We sold one of them to Celtic for £2m and the others are still first team regulars for us who didn't magically stop developing as players exactly as last season finished.

What is the magic number that you have deemed appropriate if even St Johnstone having a quarter of their team being young Scottish players isn't enough for you?

[AndyDD]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

This idea only works if you think you should develop players until the age of 23 then immediately get rid of them for new players.

The season before we would have had 3 first team regulars in that category, all of whom made it into the Scotland squad. We sold one of them to Celtic for £2m and the others are still first team regulars for us who didn't magically stop developing as players exactly as last season finished.

What is the magic number that you have deemed appropriate if even St Johnstone having a quarter of their team being young Scottish players isn't enough for you?

Ha, no that was not my point at all, you've misunderstood. Or deliberately misconstrued, who can say. A quarter is 'enough' for me, but I think we should aspire for that to be more akin to the average, rather than being out in front. I don't think it's all that great when a quarter is where our clubs top out.