League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[craigkillie]

1 minute ago, 8GamesToGo said:

Just saying the cup does affect the following season. The cup thing is interesting. The SFA decided from the start that playing to a finish was their preference and have stuck with that despite obvious difficulties and unfairnesses. The SPFL could have taken that approach with the league and given it a bit more time to see if a finish could be possible. I get one is 3 games etc but rushing into that half-arsed decision has created everything that is going on right now.

It doesn't affect the operation of the 2020/21 domestic season in any way. The only difference is potentially a different team playing in Europe on the same dates.

[Lebowski]

Will there be 50k fans at each of the semi finals and final?
When are they due to be played?
They cancelled the league and they had broadcasters and sponsors, why would the Scottish cup be given preferential treatment?

Given they've said they're only going to schedule it when fans are allowed, I'd say yes it will be in front of roughly that amount of people. Unless of course Hearts fans boycott/think they'll lose.

They ended the league early because there is a substantial increase in TV money for the coming season. Attempting to finish the league meant they would have breached their contract with Sky for that and have to renegotiate it. This after Sky knew that BT had bid 13m less a season than they did. Why exactly do you think the only clubs not wanting to end the league were those who were impacted by relegation/non promotion and Rangers who need to appeal to their nutjob support?

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

8 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

A judge may feel it requires corrected (I doubt it). Even still, I don't think the SPFL would have done things too much differently.

We'll agree to disagree overall. My opinions are obviously clouded by my loyalties but some of you need to accept yours are as well.

It's absurd for you to defend the SPFL like this given (depending on France and Belgium) Scotland is heading for being possibly the only top flight league to relegate clubs during the pandemic and one of the few not to play to a finish. IN fact right now as things still seem to be in flux in Belgium and France we might actually be the only one right now to relegate teams. Top flight league that is

But you are right they wouldn't do things differently. Their arrogance is incredible. I mean why hasn't;t compensation to Hearts, PT and Stranraer been sorted out by now or even discussed at least not in public? They could have worked up a package before the Resolution and presented it to clubs as a goodwill gesture. In the end the SPFL guy had to apologise for not even mentioning Thistle in the statement announcing the resolution result. The fact is they didn't give a thought for the clubs getting relegated in these circumstances. That tone has continued throughout and is ultimately why there is now massive bad blood between clubs. They failed completely as an organisation.

Edited July 9, 2020 by 8GamesToGo

[Dons_1988]

6 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

 

The fact is they didn't give a thought for the clubs getting relegated in these circumstances. That tone has continued throughout and is ultimately why there is now massive bad blood between clubs. They failed completely as an organisation.

Never has a statement starting with 'the fact is' been so devoid of facts.

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

4 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Never has a statement starting with 'the fact is' been so devoid of facts.

From McLennan's Q&A (they even had to issue their own Q&A - with themselves!):

"However, with the benefit of hindsight, we probably should have given clubs a few more days to respond to the directors written resolution. Also, in the press release issued on 15 April following approval of the resolution, we should have expressed concern and regret to Partick Thistle and Stranraer, who were sadly relegated by the resolution. That is one of the reasons why Neil Doncaster spoke to Jacqui Low and Iain Dougan the following day."

Never has the word "sadly" been used so devoid of actual sadness.

Edited July 9, 2020 by 8GamesToGo

[JamesM82]

. I mean why hasn't;t compensation to Hearts, PT and Stranraer been sorted out by now or even discussed at least not in public? They could have worked up a package before the Resolution and presented it to clubs as a goodwill gesture.

If Neil Doncaster had phoned up Ann Budge and said "hey, Ann, we recognise what happened to you is a bit unfair, so the rest of the clubs are willing to offer you £1 million in compensation", what do you think would have happened?

1. Ann Budge would have said "gee thanks, Neil, that's really thoughtful of you all. We're more than happy to accept your kind offer and will drop any legal actions"
2. Ann Budge would have rejected the offer and presented it as evidence of the SPFL accepting their guilt.

Edited July 9, 2020 by JamesM82

[Dons_1988]

Just now, 8GamesToGo said:

From McLennan's Q&A (they even had to issue their own Q&A - with themselves!):

"However, with the benefit of hindsight, we probably should have given clubs a few more days to respond to the directors written resolution. Also, in the press release issued on 15 April following approval of the resolution, we should have expressed concern and regret to Partick Thistle and Stranraer, who were sadly relegated by the resolution. That is one of the reasons why Neil Doncaster spoke to Jacqui Low and Iain Dougan the following day."

So they did give them a thought, that tone hasn't continued throughout and I'm fairly sure they haven't completely failed as an organisation. Thanks.

[wastecoatwilly]

34 minutes ago, AndyDD said:

... Right, but why were you talking about Partick and Stranraer being in playoffs in the first place? 

 

Bring it back to games on the park for the lower leagues takes away the off the field mess.
The tarts will get their compensation for being relegated.

Edited July 9, 2020 by wastecoatwilly

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said:

So they did give them a thought, that tone hasn't continued throughout and I'm fairly sure they haven't completely failed as an organisation. Thanks.

An afterthought at best, forced on them. They failed their way to arbitration just a few weeks before the league is due to start. They could fail at that. The clubs look like they won't accept Doncaster's plea for more executive powers for next season - they don't trust him. His position is completely untenable whatever way you look at it.

[AndyDD]

2 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Bring it back to games on the park for the lower leagues takes away the off the field mess.

So, have clubs in non playoff places take part in mini playoff tournaments? 

That's a really daft idea. 

Why does the team in first not have to earn their title in a playoff if the team in bottom gets a chance to avoid relegation through a playoff? Why would you have top spot fixed in place but the bottom spot fluid?

Quite an ill-conceived suggestion. 

[AndyDD]

5 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

An afterthought at best, forced on them. They failed their way to arbitration just a few weeks before the league is due to start. They could fail at that. The clubs look like they won't accept Doncaster's plea for more executive powers for next season - they don't trust him. His position is completely untenable whatever way you look at it.

... Tom, is that you? 

[Insaintee]

35 minutes ago, Sortmeout said:

As I’ve noted before, it’s worth remembering that #TB4 have shown others how to act properly throughout all of this.

Some of the #W38 have followed our lead but Kilmarnock, Aberdeen, Celtic and Motherwell have been (simply by being classy, well-ran and of course absolutely staunchly against relegation of our own clubs) a beacon of hope once again for Scottish football.

TBF St Mirren have left all other clubs trailling in their wake like Hearts defenders chasing after big Jon Obika

 

As usual, when it comes to dick swinging the boys from Paisley win hands down. 

[steelmen]

For the Jags it would be Falkirk or Airdrie,for stranraer it would be Edinburgh city or Elgin.
 

You really haven’t thought this through?

Thistle need to be relegated to give Raith their spot, Stranraer need to be relegated to give Cove their spot.

Having thistle, Falkirk, and airdrie play each other for a spot that doesn’t exist is sheer madness. Unless you want to start spreading it out and have QoS join in, but then why should we not include Montrose? They were in a play off place.

Unless you fancy revisiting the reconstruction discussion, I would file this idea under ‘no going to happen’

[Aim Here]

11 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

An afterthought at best, forced on them. They failed their way to arbitration just a few weeks before the league is due to start. They could fail at that. The clubs look like they won't accept Doncaster's plea for more executive powers for next season - they don't trust him. His position is completely untenable whatever way you look at it.

The main purpose of him asking for those executive powers was so that he could bypass the vote in cases like the one we just had so that he could just put through a 'lets not relegate Hearts' type proposal by executive decree and bypass the hassle of the last 3 months. It's not that different from what Leslie Deans was proposing - an executive override to the decision (although he was demanding a different mechanism - just call the status of the league an 'emergency' and overrule the shit out of everything - that would likely have been challenged in the courts).

You guys don't seem to know what you want. Do you want the clubs to be able to vote to relegate you next time, or not? If whatever the SPFL chief does gets a ton of mindless flak regardless of what way his decision goes, then really you're not doing this for Hearts or for Scottish fitba', you're on a witchhunt.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Aim Here

[Forest_Fifer]

 

You really haven’t thought this through?

 

Thistle need to be relegated to give Raith their spot, Stranraer need to be relegated to give Cove their spot.

 

Having thistle, Falkirk, and airdrie play each other for a spot that doesn’t exist is sheer madness. Unless you want to start spreading it out and have QoS join in, but then why should we not include Montrose? They were in a play off place.

 

Unless you fancy revisiting the reconstruction discussion, I would file this idea under ‘no going to happen’

He kept banging on about colts for weeks, the fact that something isn't going to happen makes no difference to him

 

[Tannadeechee]

36 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

We'll agree to disagree overall. My opinions are obviously clouded by my loyalties but some of you need to accept yours are as well.

It's absurd for you to defend the SPFL like this given (depending on France and Belgium) Scotland is heading for being possibly the only top flight league to relegate clubs during the pandemic and one of the few not to play to a finish. IN fact right now as things still seem to be in flux in Belgium and France we might actually be the only one right now. Top flight league.

But you are right they wouldn't do things differently. Their arrogance is incredible.

That is wrong for a start. The French Prime Minister, you know the head of the French Government, states categorically that there would be NO SPORTING EVENTS INDOORS OR OUTDOORS until September. 

This means that no matter the one club still threatening court action does, the league cannot be finished. The only reason the French situation was passed back by the courts originally was that there had been no vote. There now has been a vote and 74.49% voted NO to expanding the league. Again like Scotland, pretty cut and dried.

As as been pointed out until everyone is driven demented stating this fact, excuse my bluntness. With regards what other countries are doing, who gives a f**k?? It is completely an utterly irrelevant. As quite frankly what foreign countries with different legal systems do with their courts, completely f**k all relevance to us. Our administrative authorities, Scot Gov in Edinburgh, banned us from playing football, the medical opinion at the time, and Government rumblings was, there may be no football untill 2021. Our football clubs COULD NOT AFFORD to hang on untill then without their money from league. SPFL put forward.a proposal agreed by 81% (EIGHTY ONE PERCENT) of clubs. If it was a poor resolution they could have voted it down and proposed something different. 81% of clubs did not think this way and voted for the resolution.

A few weeks later the Premiership was called.as the Government & medical opinion was it could not be played.

As it turns out with UEFA's 3rd of August deadline and Scottish Government not allowing games to finish this, it definitely would not have been possible, see Northern Ireland situation. 

Again I could not give one flying iota of a f**k about France, England, Belgium,Italy, Croatia, Sweden, Turkey, Guatemala, Argentina etc. I am only concerned with Scotland, SFA and SPFL & what they have been allowed to do by Scottish Government. Have SPFL and SFA rules been followed. From my point of view they have. Whether you agree with those rules that is a separate issue. All other not Scottish situations can f**k off, once fucked off, f**k off some more back to the corner of "fucking irrelevance"

 

BTW I'm sure this will be red dotted too by the Phantom Red Dotter himself. Bring it on!

Edited July 9, 2020 by Tannadeechee

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

1 hour ago, Twinkle said:

If Budge firmly believes that its for the benefit of Scottish football to have less teams, shes more than welcome to fold Hearts altogether. One less club to worry about and the rest of scottish football can see if it works or not

A lot of people throughout the game think there should be fewer professional teams in a country Scotland's size. I agree it's worth looking at full-time teams only in the SPFL and helping clubs do that collectively. Part-time teams can still play in their communities and aim o become full-time and progress through the pyramid but that's another debate. 

If there's going to be one less club, which I hope not, I think there are other more likely contenders.

What's your view on D Utd owned by wealthy American oil magnate asking for £1,000 each from part-time league two clubs without two pennies to rub together in the middle of a recession a few months after Utd bought themselves a title by going into 3m of debt then sealing promotion by voting for it?

[Dons_1988]

15 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

An afterthought at best, forced on them. They failed their way to arbitration just a few weeks before the league is due to start. They could fail at that. The clubs look like they won't accept Doncaster's plea for more executive powers for next season - they don't trust him. His position is completely untenable whatever way you look at it.

You need to take a breath from this.

 

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

3 minutes ago, Tannadeechee said:

Again I could.not give one flying iota of a f**k about France, England, Belgium,Italy, Croatia, Sweden, Turkey, Guatemala, Argentina etc. I am only concerned with Scotland, SFA and SPFL & what they have been allowed to do by Scottish Government. Have SPFL and SFA rules been followed. From my point of view they have. Whether you agree with those rules that is a separate issue. All other not Scottish situations can f**k off, once fucled off, f**k off some more back to the corner of "fucking irrelevance"

 

Yes and we return to the amazing coincidence of contact football possibly happening exactly when the SPFL need it to and crowds possibly returning just in time for the OF derby.

[Tannadeechee]

Just now, 8GamesToGo said:

A lot of people throughout the game think there should be fewer professional teams in a country Scotland's size. I agree it's worth looking at full-time teams only in the SPFL and helping clubs do that collectively. Part-time teams can still play in their communities and aim o become full-time and progress through the pyramid but that's another debate. 

If there's going to be one less club, which I hope not, I think there are other more likely contenders.

What's your view on D Utd owned by wealthy American oil magnate asking for £1,000 each from part-time league two clubs without two pennies to rub together in the middle of a recession a few months after Utd bought themselves a title by going into 3m of debt then sealing promotion by voting for it?

One that's utter bollocks

 

Two Raith Rovers have said this could finish them. This is not DU but DU ,RR and Cove. It is also something that may well have repercussions for many clubs.