B or Colt teams in the Lower Leagues.

[CambieBud]

I would rather go and watch Morton. 

Steady!!!!

[JamieThomas]

[Tutankhamen]

Sounds like a great idea.

[Whitburn Vale]

6 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

Sounds like a great idea.

Oh look,Tutti Frutti has arrived on the Premiership thread to stink that out as well !!

[Crawford Bridge]

Who is worse, tartan army or junior thickos?

[nsr]

I doubt the Piggywigs would allow Celtic B to play at home the same day as Rangers A were at Ibokes. Or vice versa.

[parsforlife]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Shaker said:

We've already got a Colt team in the Highland League - you'd have though the OP would have known this - and it's not been a roaring success. 

how has the fort William/ict sham   arrangement gone been perceived in the HL? 

[Whitburn Vale]

2 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

how has the fort William/ict sham   arrangement gone been perceived in the HL? 

50/50 pars,some dont mind it while others think it's a farce,it's like playing the ICT laddies in Fort William strips!!

Great away day though 

[Bad Wolf]

20 minutes ago, Crawford Bridge said:

Who is worse, tartan army or junior thickos?

Now there's a deeply philosophical, and downright tricky, question for this time of night.

[eez-eh]

f**k off.

The obvious solution for youth players not getting competitive football is for the big clubs to, y’know, stop stockpiling any half decent youth player in the country and let them sign for a club where they’ll actually have a chance of breaking through.

[Jimmy Shaker]

32 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

how has the fort William/ict sham   arrangement gone been perceived in the HL? 

It got off to a bad start, coming as it did just a few weeks after ICT were told they weren't getting an actual Colts team. Then they turned out to be shit and no one really cared. Then they started shuffling them about in the new year, with ICT taking one back and moving him on to Rothes and sending some more down to Fort. Had the season gone on, they'd have gotten off the bottom as they got through their backlog of games against teams who were idle and sat waiting weeks to play them with no games inbetween.

Pretty sure the SHFL has amended the rule book to prevent the same thing happening again, which tells you all you need to know about how the clubs feel about it.  

Edited April 23, 2020 by Jimmy Shaker

[The Saintee]

Nah, you're alright.

[Busta Nut]

5 hours ago, Thistle Scotland Europe said:

I think it is time we allowed the big sides, or all Premier sides to put second teams in the lower divisions.

 

Purpose

 

The point in this is to help Scotland produce more talented football players, who can go on to help the Scottish international team reach and do well in major championships.

 

The more talented players we have, the more chance of Scotland doing well in international football

 

It is not to help Celtic or Rangers. It is to help the Scottish international team. Although the big sides would benefit from this move.

 

Justification.

 

At present many young Scottish players do not get early senior level experience because there are other players in their way. So players are not tested at competitive level football. Giving players early experience of competitive football is vital for their development

 

Examples.

 

In Spain, Germany, the Netherlands, France, Belgium, Portugal and Germany , the big sides play reserve teams in the lower divisions, so that young players can test themselves against grown men, and at competitive levels.

 

The most striking example is Croatia. Croatia a nation that has reached the World Cup Final with a population smaller than Scotland. In Croatia, 3 teams Osijek, Zagreb, and Hajduk Split have second teams playing in the second division. So in Croatia. No one says it is just persecuting the smaller sides or ganging up with the big 3 sides to let the big sides to have second teams in the league system. People in Croatia realise that having the big sides having reserve teams in the lower divisions, is a way of guaranteeing young top players at the big sides will get competitive experience of football at a young age, They put the Croatian international side above the petty interests of each club.   

 

What I want for Scottish Football.

 

I want Scotland to do well in major championships. I want Scottish clubs to do well in European club competitions. I want Scottish football to be seen as a major league in Europe and the World.

 

So we need a system that produces more top players, great elite club sides who can do well in Europe. Have high attendances in the Scottish League. Attracting great players to play in Scotland.

 

 

 

The Critics of the idea.

 

That this is taking places in the league away from smaller sides.

 

But I think any team big enough to be in the Scottish League, should be offered a place in the Scottish League.

 

But

 

A)      You should not put the interests of a part time team finishing 8 places higher in the league system above the interests of the Scottish international team producing good players. That is a betrayal of Scottish nationality.  

 

B)      What gets on my nerves is people who say we should have less team in the Scottish Football League. Then the next minute complain about B teams being put in the league on the basis that they might take places away from smaller sides like Brora Rangers of Kelty Hearts, that they have just said should not be in the Scottish League. Let me reiterate I think Brora and Kelty should be in the Scottish League, but I also think the big side’s reserve teams should be in the league, so every young Scottish player, at the big sides has the capability to show what they are capable of on a football field.

 

People will say well why don’t ’the big clubs just play young players in their first team more often.

 

My argument to that. Is that that is not living in the real world. If the elite sides just played inexperienced sides in their first team every season, they would do worse in the league, and would perform terribly in European competitions. What we need a system that enables all our club sides to do well but also produces more international players

 

Those who don’t care about Scottish football’s reputation. -

 

What gets on my nerves is people who don’t care how well Scottish clubs do in Europe. And don’t care how well the international side does in international football. And then have the cheek to pretend that they have sincere views on how to help Scottish football develop at club level and international level.

 

They tend to put forward ridiculous ideas like suggesting that we should let Celtic and Rangers join the English League and that losing our biggest sides would help Scottish football. Or they say stupid things like well our teams do rubbish in Europe so who cares about making a system to that makes them do better   Or they bring up sore points from years ago, that justify their hatred of the big, or elite clubs in Scottish football. And then these people have the cheek for us to take their views on how to help Scottish football seriously.

 

I know one person suggested that every Scottish club should be part time. How the heck would Scottish football club perform in Europe, if we lost all our top players to other leagues and could not attract top foreign players to the league? It is utter nonsense.

 

I know one person who said they would rather their own side win the league rather than Scotland producing top players.

 

 

 

The Rangers Celtic Critics

 

You will get some who will suggest all I want to do is have Celtic and Rangers winning the lower leagues. That is not what this is about. It is about motivating the top clubs to develop young Scottish players without damaging their chances in Europe.

 

My Plan

 

I would have every Scottish Premier side, be allowed a under 21-year old sides in the bottom tier of the SPFL. That would be a good level for Scottish players to develop. I would also allow the under 21-year old sides to have 3 over 21 year old players in their teams. This is to ensure there are players who can teach their younger players what to do in competitive football games. As you need some older experienced players to pass on tricks of the trade and composure to the less experienced players.

 

You will get some who will say what about the loan system.

 

But the loan system would not give an entire Premier side’s youth team in their side. You would be lucky for a lower division team to give more than 3 young players a chance.

 

How would you like it if your fave side had to play a reserve side?

 

I remember one critic of my idea said well how would Aberdeen fans like it if they had to play the Real Madrid B side?

 

I would be happy to have it that Colt or B sides do not play in the Scottish domestic cups, if this happened.

 

My answer to that would be;

 

1)      I am not Spanish. I am not interested in helping Spanish sides develop. I am interested in helping Scottish players at the big clubs develop. Why would your first argument be to ask how I would be interested in helping foreign teams to do better. Do you see the Scottish sides, in the same esteem as foreign sides.  

 

2)      The only way Aberdeen could play Real Madrid B side in competitive football, would be if there was a European Super League, and Aberdeen found themselves in a division with Real Madrid’s second team, it would not bother me. If it was about playing Nice one week, Livorno the next, and then Real Madrid’s second side. I would take that, if that was our level.

 

 

 

Other advantages of this idea;

 

1. Imagine a Celtic B v Rangers B game filling a large stadium. Imagine the lower Scottish leagues listing 20,000 or 30,000 fans turning up for a League One or League Two decider. It would make Scottish football look better.

    

2. The big clubs would get better players because their players had developed more at a young age. So could perform better in European competitions.

    

3. Smaller club’s fans would be able to see the young potential Scottish stars at their stadiums,

    

4. There would be more attention given to the lower leagues, as the big club’s fans would want to know how their teams were getting on.

    

5. It could lead to great players from other countries coming to Scotland due to Scotland having a better youth development system.

    

6. Every club in Scotland has the potential to reach the Premier, and then have a B team in the lower leagues. Every club in Scotland could be in the Premier, with the right backing behind them. So this could be something all Scottish clubs could look forward to doing. 40 years ago Ross County were a small club in the Highland League. Now they are an established side in the Premier. That could happen to almost any club in Scotland, with the current pyramid system. Look at other examples in the past like Clydebank, and Dumbarton.

    

 

 

Hope you have enjoyed reading my views,

 

Thanks,

 

Fu ck off mate.

[Jacksgranda]

12 hours ago, kingjoey said:

No, no, thrice no.

[ahemps]

10 hours ago, eez-eh said:

The obvious solution for youth players not getting competitive football is for the big clubs to, y’know, stop stockpiling any half decent youth player in the country and let them sign for a club where they’ll actually have a chance of breaking through.

This is a great point. Colt teams would make stock piling by the bigger teams even worse. The big clubs won't stop doing this out of their own good will so how can this be avoided? Could some rules be applied to discourage this????

 

[Durnford]

Quote

The point in this is to help Scotland produce more talented football players, who can go on to help the Scottish international team reach and do well in major championships.

I may be missing something but wasn't that what Project "Braveheart" was meant to achieve?

 

 

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Just now, ahemps said:

This is a great point. Colt teams would make stock piling by the bigger teams even worse. The big clubs won't stop doing this out of their own good will so how can this be avoided? Could some rules be applied to discourage this????

 

The counter argument would be if clubs are going to be stockpiling youngsters anyway at least this gives them first team football. No matter what system we use then stockpiling will happen.

I think loans or clubs setting up links with lower league clubs would make more sense than B/Colt teams however.

[Dink]

Well, we certainly need something to translate the magnificent success we have at age group level to the senior teams...

Or instead of wrecking the lower leagues the richer teams could invest in facilities and educating our coaches so that we produce better players in the first place.

[eez-eh]

13 minutes ago, ahemps said:

This is a great point. Colt teams would make stock piling by the bigger teams even worse. The big clubs won't stop doing this out of their own good will so how can this be avoided? Could some rules be applied to discourage this????

 

 

11 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

The counter argument would be if clubs are going to be stockpiling youngsters anyway at least this gives them first team football. No matter what system we use then stockpiling will happen.

I think loans or clubs setting up links with lower league clubs would make more sense than B/Colt teams however.

Increased use of the loan system and/or more restrictions on squad sizes are much better solutions to the stockpiling. It’s not just a Scotland problem to be fair, just need to look at the number of players Chelsea send out on loan every season (or used to before they were forced to actually give some of them a chance - and hey presto it actually worked out okay for them).

Unfortunately the SFA seem keen for more centralisation of this rather than less, with the ridiculous entry requirements clubs need to meet before their youth teams can compete at or near the highest level.

[ahemps]

54 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

Increased use of the loan system and/or more restrictions on squad sizes are much better solutions to the stockpiling. It’s not just a Scotland problem to be fair, just need to look at the number of players Chelsea send out on loan every season (or used to before they were forced to actually give some of them a chance - and hey presto it actually worked out okay for them).

Unfortunately the SFA seem keen for more centralisation of this rather than less, with the ridiculous entry requirements clubs need to meet before their youth teams can compete at or near the highest level.

I believe FIFA or UEFA are introducing a loan limit to stop Clubs (Chelsea/Juventus being among the worst culprits) stockpiling and loaning players out. It is limited to 8 loans in and out of the club and it is only applicable to players over 22. I think one of these clubs had 40 players out on loan at one time.

I think a tighter limit should be applied on this and squad sizes. Clubs should be made to make a decision on a player at some point. They'll get some wrong but that's life.

Patrick Roberts signed an extension to his Man City contract last year???? He will obviously never play for them but they are holding on to him to get a transfer fee at some point. Is this fair? He may be happy getting the money so who's to say it is unfair but it is stifling the game in some ways.