George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

[Guest JTS98]

3 hours ago, ali_91 said:

White people cannot decide what is offensive to black people, no. I didn’t know if it was acceptable for the BBC to use the word in their reporting, although I thought it was a strange thing to broadcast and had the potential to cause backlash. 

The response from those who the word effects, culminating in a prominent black employee feeling he had no option other than to quite his job, shows me that it was unacceptable for the BBC to broadcast this, and the fact that they have now issued an apology speaks volumes. 
 

This post is a white man telling the black community what battles they can and cannot fight. 

So, you chose not to answer my questions.

I'll repeat them for you.

Do you believe that a white person can never legitimately disagree with a black person over racism?

Do all black people have the same opinion? What about back people who think the BBC were right? Do you always deny yourself the right to hold an independent view on topics that may immediately affect someone more than you?

I'd appreciate it if you'd just answer the questions as asked.

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, ali_91 said:

 

I'll repeat my questions for you again, you seem to have missed them twice. I'm just trying to clarify your stance.

Do you believe that a white person can never legitimately disagree with a black person over racism?

Do all black people have the same opinion? What about back people who think the BBC were right? Do you always deny yourself the right to hold an independent view on topics that may immediately affect someone more than you?

[afca32]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000lpv7/the-australian-dream

A worthwhile watch about Australian Rules footballer Adam Goodes and his experiences with racism as an Indigenous man.

[Guest JTS98]

3 minutes ago, ali_91 said:

You’re such a bore, the questions were answered in the context of the discussion we were having. Grow up. 

You can call me a bore if you like. But it would be better (and more honest) if you'd just answer the questions.

I'm starting to think you can't. And I don't see them answered anywhere on this thread. Perhaps you can point me to where?

Let's try again.

Do you believe that a white person can never legitimately disagree with a black person over racism?

Do all black people have the same opinion? What about back people who think the BBC were right? Do you always deny yourself the right to hold an independent view on topics that may immediately affect someone more than you?

Edited August 10, 2020 by JTS98

[ParsJake]

This is becoming one hell of a  sealioning.

[Wee-Bey]

30 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

Do you believe that a white person can never legitimately disagree with a black person over racism?

Can you provide some legitimate disagreements that white people could have with black people over racism ?

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Can you provide some legitimate disagreements that white people could have with black people over racism ?

Of course I can.

Would you like to answer one of the questions that @ali_91 is ducking?

Do you believe that a white person can never legitimately disagree with a black person over racism?

 

[Wee-Bey]

4 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

Of course I can.

Go on then.

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Go on then.

If you'd be polite enough to answer my question (which was posed first) then I'll answer yours.

It's important in the context of the black BBC employee resigning.

[Guest JTS98]

Hi @Marshmallo

Instead of just taking the coward's red dotting approach, perhaps you'd like to actually engage in a grown-up converasation and answer my questions that @ali_91 is dodging?

Do you believe that a white person can never legitimately disagree with a black person over racism?

Do all black people have the same opinion? What about back people who think the BBC were right? Do you always deny yourself the right to hold an independent view on topics that may immediately affect someone more than you?

[Wee-Bey]

2 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

If you'd be polite enough to answer my question (which was posed first) then I'll answer yours.

It's important in the context of the black BBC employee resigning.

If you would be so kind as to provide some examples, then I would be able to carefully consider if they were indeed 'legitimate', or not.

This is fun.

 

[Marshmallo]

Just now, JTS98 said:

Hi @Marshmallo

Instead of just taking the coward's red dotting approach, perhaps you'd like to actually engage in a grown-up converasation and answer my questions that @ali_91 is dodging?

Do you believe that a white person can never legitimately disagree with a black person over racism?

Do all black people have the same opinion? What about back people who think the BBC were right? Do you always deny yourself the right to hold an independent view on topics that may immediately affect someone more than you?

Respectively

OK

No

No

What about them?

No, but I will listen to their point of view and give it a hell of a lot more weight than my own largely irrelevant opinion

 

And don't ever call me a coward again you RAT

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

If you would be so kind as to provide some examples, then I would be able to carefully consider if they were indeed 'legitimate', or not.

This is fun.

 

As I explained in my previous post, your answers to my questions are necessary for the conversation to continue.

I'm not going to ask again, so just let me know whether you're going to answer or not. I'll answer your question as soon as you answer mine.

[Marshmallo]

 

[Guest JTS98]

2 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

Respectively

OK

No

No

What about them?

No, but I will listen to their point of view and give it a hell of a lot more weight than my own largely irrelevant opinion

 

And don't ever call me a coward again you RAT

Firstly, you are a coward. You just run about the forum red-dotting rather than actually engaging with people. If you don't like being told that you're a coward, then stop being one.

As for your answers; my goodness.

Let's say that a black person voices a completely irrational view on racism. For example that the teaching of the historical fact of black-driven slavery out of Africa should not be allowed. You would not disagree with that? That's what you've just said, and it's a patently ridiculous position to take.

Secondly, if you accept (as you do) that black people do not have one view on issues, then how can you say a white person can not legitimately disagree with a black person on racism? You've just accepted that some black people could be wrong. How can it be wrong to disagree with someone who is wrong?

Point 3 echos point 2.

As for point 4; if you don't trust your own reasoning skills to form an opinion simply because of the colour of your skin, then I'd suggest you need to take a step back and consider why you hold such anti-intellectual views.

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, JTS98 said:

Firstly, you are a coward. You just run about the forum red-dotting rather than actually engaging with people. If you don't like being told that you're a coward, then stop being one.

As for your answers; my goodness.

Let's say that a black person voices a completely irrational view on racism. For example that the teaching of the historical fact of black-driven slavery out of Africa should not be allowed. You would not disagree with that? That's what you've just said, and it's a patently ridiculous position to take.

Secondly, if you accept (as you do) that black people do not have one view on issues, then how can you say a white person can not legitimately disagree with a black person on racism? You've just accepted that some black people could be wrong. How can it be wrong to disagree with someone who is wrong?

Point 3 echos point 2.

As for point 4; if you don't trust your own reasoning skills to form an opinion simply because of the colour of your skin, then I'd suggest you need to take a step back and consider why you hold such anti-intellectual views.

You said "can a white person never disagree with a black person on race" or some other strawman and I said "no". Why are you replying as if I said "yes"?

To your final point, if someone has more lived experience on a topic than I do then I believe their opinion holds more weight than my own. I can form an opinion but it will not carry as much value. I can have an opinion on how to land a rover on Mars but I would probably defer to some cunt that works for NASA as having a more valid opinion than I do.

PS I have reported you for calling me a coward

[Guest JTS98]

6 minutes ago, ali_91 said:

Doesn’t know the meaning of no type post. 

We've established that you don't have the capacity to defend the views you purport to hold.

Ok.

[Ira Gaines]

Let's be clear. There's a difference between "can a white person disagree with a black person on racism?" and "can a white person know how racist terms affect black people?" which is ultimately what this recent BBC cock up comes down to.

[NotThePars]

Tbh, ignoring JTS's obvious straw men I really think most people are dismissing his (yours?) contributions because of this opening salvo

On 09/08/2020 at 08:10, JTS98 said:

I'm not on board with the idea that the N-word can be used in rap music to make money, but not in a factual report about a racist attack.

Which is something I'd expect to read below the line of a Daily Mail article about Kendrick Lamar. It's no surprise that people then just assume someone that genuinely thinks this is uniquely unqualified (as a historian or anything else) to speak on matters of race.

 

[Guest JTS98]

2 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Tbh, ignoring JTS's obvious straw men I really think most people are dismissing his (yours?) contributions because of this opening salvo

Which is something I'd expect to read below the line of a Daily Mail article about Kendrick Lamar. It's no surprise that people then just assume someone that genuinely thinks this is uniquely unqualified (as a historian or anything else) to speak on matters of race.

 

You clearly don't know what a straw man is. It's a fashionable term, but you're just showing that you don't understand how an argument develops.

It is perfectly valid in the context of a discussion where a black BBC employee has voiced an opinion and people are discussing that in a debate to ask whether white people can disagree with people on race issues. If you don't see that, then you don't see that.

It's a question that gets to the heart of whose opinions are and are not valid and the answer to that question tells us who is worth paying attention to and who can be ignored.