League Cup 2020 - Round of 16 Draw

[welldaft]

To be honest I actually like the format. 

My hissy fit earlier in the thread is due to how tiring and obvious it was we would draw St Johnstone. Clearly a winnable tie (for both teams) but as seeded side we have never drawn a lower league team despite there usually being a 50/50 chance of doing so. 

In effect this is the Nations League for Scottish football. Remove meaningless friendlies and to that extent it has worked. Clearly Covid has had an impact this season in terms of schedule. 

I am totally against seeding though. Not that it makes a difference to Motherwell anyway but it is the one thing I detest the most about UEFA Club competitions. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by welldaft

[Jimi Shandrix]

The group set up is heavily loaded towards the bigger teams. For example, Peterhead gained nothing for beating a Premier League team away from home. Straight knock out would at least give us the opportunity to have a few league 1 or 2 clubs going deep into the tournament. I know Falkirk have made it through to the last 16 this year but this  was more to do with Killie's covid problems than anything else.

[Phillips455]

Dates and Televised fixtures announced:

Saturday November 28
Alloa Athletic v Heart of Midlothian    
Arbroath v Dunfermline Athletic    
Hibernian v Dundee    
Livingston v Ayr United
Motherwell v St Johnstone
St Mirren v Aberdeen – Live on Premier Sports, ko 5.15pm    

Sunday November 29
Celtic v Ross County – Live on Premier Sports, ko 2.00pm        
Falkirk v Rangers – Live on Premier Sports, ko 5.00pm 

 

As i would have guessed it. I thought Premier may take the Hibs Dundee game again but i guess not.

 

[RandomGuy.]

21 hours ago, Jimi Shandrix said:

The group set up is heavily loaded towards the bigger teams. For example, Peterhead gained nothing for beating a Premier League team away from home. Straight knock out would at least give us the opportunity to have a few league 1 or 2 clubs going deep into the tournament. I know Falkirk have made it through to the last 16 this year but this  was more to do with Killie's covid problems than anything else.

I imagine a lot of lower league clubs prefer potentially 2 guaranteed games against top flight sides more than getting papped out in the first round by a fellow League Two side.

[elvis]

St Mirren away.

A team in the same division that we already played in the same stadium in a cup earlier this calendar year.

Quite possibly the dullest draw ever.

At least yous are garentted to win it easy.

[Phillips455]

An Update from the SPFL regarding Testing:

As with the first round, several lower division (and therefore non-swab testing) clubs will play against Premiership (swab testing) clubs. To minimise the risk of transmission to Premiership players, any team drawn against a Premiership club in the Betfred Cup this season is required to swab test its players in the 168-hour period prior to that Betfred Cup fixture, with results provided to the League by midday two days prior to the tie.

As with Premiership league fixtures, any players who test positive and any players who are identified as a close contact of a player whose test is positive, are required to self-isolate and are not able to take part in the tie.

If a club is unable or unwilling to field a team in a Betfred Cup second round tie, including one which fails to provide sufficient negative test results, the club concerned will forfeit the match (on the basis of a 3-0 defeat).

In the unlikely event of both clubs in a second round tie being unwilling or unable to field a team, or failing to notify sufficient numbers of negative test results in accordance with SPFL Regulations to enable them to play the tie, lots will be drawn to determine which of the two clubs will advance to the third round.

Source: https://spfl.co.uk/news/betfred-cup-statement

 

Basically, all teams (including lower league teams) need to be tested before hand and have enough available players to be fielded for the tie. If one team is unable to then they will forfeit the tie 3-0. If both teams cannot field a team then a draw will take place to determine the winner.

[bennett]

Even by the SPFLs standards, that's an atrociously bad idea from them.

 

Drawing lots ffs.

Edited November 18, 2020 by bennett

[Spikethedee]

On ‎16‎/‎11‎/‎2020 at 13:20, Antiochas III said:

How do you make sure the Group Winners get home ties and the European teams get away ties.  You would have to make the European sides unseeded - and that is not going to happen as you are punishing the European teams for having a successful season. 

Just have the current system of seeded and unseeded pots. You draw a seeded team first, then an unseeded team to play them. Then an unseeded team first then a seeded team to play them etc etc. If it comes out that a Euro team is drawn at home, the tie is simply flipped - so, I Rangers get a home draw against the lowest team left in (unlikely, I know....) they simply flip the tie to the unseeded team being at home.

[HibeeJibee]

I know this is a total aside but why would you award a knockout tie 3-0... opposed to 1-0 or just awarding it as a default & walkover?

[Melanius Mullarkey]

3-0 Aberdeen then.

[PauloPerth]

On 16/11/2020 at 21:16, Jimi Shandrix said:

The group set up is heavily loaded towards the bigger teams. For example, Peterhead gained nothing for beating a Premier League team away from home. Straight knock out would at least give us the opportunity to have a few league 1 or 2 clubs going deep into the tournament. I know Falkirk have made it through to the last 16 this year but this  was more to do with Killie's covid problems than anything else.

Have heard this said so was curious to see if it was the case.

4 teams get byes to the knock out rounds through qualifying for Europe, so that leaves 12 places available for the rest through the group stages. This is the fifth season we've had the group sections since they were re-instated, and the breakdown of teams qualifying for the last 16 (including euro byes) by league are:

2020-21

LEAGUE  CUP

9 Premiership, 6 Championship, 1 League One.   (7 non-Premiership teams in round of 16).

SCOTTISH CUP

Not played yet

 

2019-20

LEAGUE  CUP

10 Premiership, 4 Championship, 2 League One.     (6 non-Premiership teams in round of 16).

SCOTTISH CUP

11 Premiership, 2 Championship, 2 League One, 1 Lowland.    (5 non-Premiership teams in round of 16).

 

2018-19

LEAGUE  CUP

 11 Premiership, 5 Championship.                                   (5 non-Premiership teams in round of 16).

SCOTTISH CUP

8 Premiership, 5 Championship, 2 League One, 1 Junior.      (8 non-Premiership teams in round of 16).

 

2017-18

LEAGUE  CUP

 11 Premiership, 4 Championship, 1 League One    (5 non-Premiership teams in round of 16).

SCOTTISH CUP

9 Premiership, 4 Championship, 1 League One, 2 Highland.    (7 non-Premiership teams in round of 16).

 

2016-17

LEAGUE  CUP

9 Premiership, 5 Championship, 2 League One.     (7 non-Premiership teams in round of 16. Hibs seeded whilst in champ).

SCOTTISH CUP

9 Premiership, 5 Championship, 1 League One, 1 League Two.    (7 non-Premiership teams in round of 16).

 

So the League Cup has been slightly better for Championship clubs, and the Scottish Cup has been very slightly better for League One clubs.   Only one League Two club has made it to a last 16 in either competition (Clyde in 2016-17 Scottish Cup).

The biggest difference is the welcome addition of representation from Highland, Lowland and Junior Leagues in the Scottish Cup last 16 over the last few years.  

For league one and league two teams, guaranteed group matches against teams from higher divisions has surely been beneficial?  As said above, there's every chance of being knocked out by teams from the same league in a straight knock out and never being in the draw when the Premiership clubs enter for years on end.

 

 

[PauloPerth]

The changes to the cups I would make are:

• Get rid of regionalisation for group stages of league cup to give greater variety of teams you are drawn in groups with.
• Get rid of seeding in league cup for round of 16. The euro qualifiers have had enough advantage with a bye past the group stage, they don't need to be seeded as well.
• All league clubs (including Premiership) should enter Scottish Cup from round 1, no seeding at all.

[craigkillie]

The seedings provide and incentive for the teams in their groups to keep going even if they've already guaranteed qualification.

[PauloPerth]

On 21/11/2020 at 13:40, craigkillie said:

The seedings provide and incentive for the teams in their groups to keep going even if they've already guaranteed qualification.

Maybe so, but surely prize money for placing in group or number of points would do the same?

[The Master]

Drawing lots to decide, say, Hibs v Dundee because there's no free dates for Celtic or "Rangers" to fit in a postponed game really is peak SPFL.

Obviously they've not explicitly stated that as the reason, but it's fairly obvious. For 6 of the 8 fixtures, assuming appropriate testing there's ample opportunity to try again between this weekend and the QF midweek. 

[HibeeJibee]

Is this universal or specially for League Cup R2? If former - a repeat of the scenarios that saw various Aberdeen and Celtic games cancelled early in the season or various Kilmarnock and St Mirren games cancelled more recently, could see SFs or even Finals forfeited? Would they actually do that?

[ZingaliMan]

On 18/11/2020 at 09:04, elvis said:

On 16/11/2020 at 00:27, tarapoa said:

St Mirren away.

A team in the same division that we already played in the same stadium in a cup earlier this calendar year.

Quite possibly the dullest draw ever.

At least yous are garentted to win it easy.

Hell knows what you get out of supposedly supporting St Mirren.  In all the years of you posting I cant think of one positive post on Saints you have ever made. Were you bullied at school by a Saints fan ? 

[G51]

On 20/11/2020 at 11:26, PauloPerth said:

The changes to the cups I would make are:

• Get rid of regionalisation for group stages of league cup to give greater variety of teams you are drawn in groups with.
• Get rid of seeding in league cup for round of 16. The euro qualifiers have had enough advantage with a bye past the group stage, they don't need to be seeded as well.
• All league clubs (including Premiership) should enter Scottish Cup from round 1, no seeding at all.

Do we want more or less games in the season for top flight clubs? Given the scheduling difficulties we tend to have already I had assumed less. I don't really see the point of this just so that Celtic or Rangers can beat Burntisland Shipyard by 900 goals to nil.

[HibeeJibee]

3 hours ago, G51 said:

Do we want more or less games in the season for top flight clubs? Given the scheduling difficulties we tend to have already I had assumed less. I don't really see the point of this just so that Celtic or Rangers can beat Burntisland Shipyard by 900 goals to nil.

Logistically it's actually quite doable. There are just over 100 entrants.

You could start everyone together - as there are fewer than 128 the top clubs could get the byes to Last 64 and it would only entail 1 more round for them than now. So it's not outlandish.

Czech Republic, Denmark, England, France, Germany, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland and Turkey all add their top flight clubs at 'Last 64'.

Estonia, Hungary, Norway, Slovakia and Spain actually add theirs at 'Last 128'.

[PauloPerth]

19 hours ago, G51 said:

Do we want more or less games in the season for top flight clubs? Given the scheduling difficulties we tend to have already I had assumed less. I don't really see the point of this just so that Celtic or Rangers can beat Burntisland Shipyard by 900 goals to nil.

But for the likes of yourselves and Celtic that are desperate for your younger team to play competitive football its ideal.  A mixture of 21's and fringe first team players. 

And as HJ says, it's only an extra 1 or 2 matches a season we'd be talking about.

Edited November 24, 2020 by PauloPerth
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