Highland Capital Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 22 hours ago, Tight John McVeigh is a tit said: Had a long debate on this topic a few years ago with a friend who had went and someone who was all against it. How it is only for the individuals ego and ‘bragging rights’ but it doesn’t help the local people. The money goes to the government, it legitimises the leadership and of course you do not actually see anything that remotely reflects day to day life. You'd have to be immensely naive to go to North Korea and not realise almost everything you'd see was a charade - but that in some ways could be argued is another intriguing reason to go. You could make the argument about going to NK gives money to a brutal regime but you could make that argument for many countries - go to America and you're spending money in a country that bombs all over the world for oil (could say the same for the UK!). Go to Japan or Iceland you're spending money in a country that still does whaling. Go to many of the African/Middle Eastern countries and you'd be spending money in a country that imprisons and even executes gay people. You could do go on and on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tight minge Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Highland Capital said: You'd have to be immensely naive to go to North Korea and not realise almost everything you'd see was a charade - but that in some ways could be argued is another intriguing reason to go. You could make the argument about going to NK gives money to a brutal regime but you could make that argument for many countries - go to America and you're spending money in a country that bombs all over the world for oil (could say the same for the UK!). Go to Japan or Iceland you're spending money in a country that still does whaling. Go to many of the African/Middle Eastern countries and you'd be spending money in a country that imprisons and even executes gay people. You could do go on and on. Wouldn’t disagree generally but your crossing over into the wider topic of ethical tourism. You could argue of the countries you mention that at least some of your money is going into the hands of locals and the local economy and your not directly legitimising a government in your actions. You could argue you are at least helping local people. For North Korea. All your money goes to the government and you are really entering a state run sideshow as real as Disneyland. It could be considered that people going to some outlandish places go for adventure, thrill seeking or to expand their understanding. None of that can be said of North Korea. Its nothing more than a bragging right and ego fulfilling. As said before, these arguments (ironically from a Chinese individual) are not necessarily mine. However, their more detailed arguments moved me from being interested to go, to not caring either way. If the chance was presented to me on a plate, would I go? Yes I would. This was discussed years ago on here, but the person who went was invited to arrange a football match (which is a common request seemingly). He went as far as discussing this with the British Consulate in Shanghai and was roundly told not to go ahead with it in any shape or form. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 One reason for not going to North Korea is that it is a prison. You can go, look around and then leave. A native who tries to leave can be imprisoned or even executed. An innocent conversation with a local could get them into trouble and you would never know. When someone goes to prison, their children and grandchildren go as well. Along with Somalia it is the most corrupt country in the world. Something to consider while having an ice cream in the park in Pyongyang in a country where millions died of starvation not that long ago. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tight minge Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 49 minutes ago, Fullerene said: One reason for not going to North Korea is that it is a prison. You can go, look around and then leave. Its not even that. Set itinerary and travel plan, your only looking around where your allowed to look around. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 6 hours ago, Fullerene said: One reason for not going to North Korea is that it is a prison. You can go, look around and then leave. A native who tries to leave can be imprisoned or even executed. An innocent conversation with a local could get them into trouble and you would never know. When someone goes to prison, their children and grandchildren go as well. Along with Somalia it is the most corrupt country in the world. Something to consider while having an ice cream in the park in Pyongyang in a country where millions died of starvation not that long ago. Any idea how much it is for a pint? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Any idea how much it is for a pint? 38p. Equivalent to what a North Korean gets paid for 2 hours work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamski Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 On 03/12/2020 at 04:11, hk blues said: We faced the same discussion when we went to Myanmar - honestly speaking I'm not into the political debate or the rights and wrongs of tourists in such places as the same argument could be made for countless other places albeit to a lesser extent. We just fancied it and were able to go without much hassle. We also had similar discussions before going to Myanmar in 2012. Absolutely fascinating country, but you didn’t have to look far to spot the various political ills, and we often felt uncomfortable about being there and questioned whether we’d done the right thing in going. My strangest places (enjoyed having a think about this): Brunei (complete propaganda about how wonderful the king is, petrol was (is?) cheaper than bottled water, no alcohol but a fondness for things that had fermented a bit - I was only there a few hours but found it fascinating. Also crossing the border between Jordan and Israel - serious, unnerving levels of security (fairly understandably), a general feeling that ‘stuff has happened here’, met on the Israeli side by gun-toting teenagers doing their national service who looked and acted like a militia. I went with three friends and we got held at the border and questioned for ages because our plans for while we were in Israel didn’t fully match up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tongue_tied_danny Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 26 minutes ago, Adamski said: We also had similar discussions before going to Myanmar in 2012. Absolutely fascinating country, but you didn’t have to look far to spot the various political ills, and we often felt uncomfortable about being there and questioned whether we’d done the right thing in going. My strangest places (enjoyed having a think about this): Brunei (complete propaganda about how wonderful the king is, petrol was (is?) cheaper than bottled water, no alcohol but a fondness for things that had fermented a bit - I was only there a few hours but found it fascinating. Also crossing the border between Jordan and Israel - serious, unnerving levels of security (fairly understandably), a general feeling that ‘stuff has happened here’, met on the Israeli side by gun-toting teenagers doing their national service who looked and acted like a militia. I went with three friends and we got held at the border and questioned for ages because our plans for while we were in Israel didn’t fully match up. I've been to Israel too and I had no problem whatsoever getting in. Getting out was another story. I was queuing at the airport when some teenage girl in uniform approached me and started asking questions. Who are you? What are you doing in Israel? Etc. When she finished another came across and asked similar questions. This one looked through my passport and nearly had a hairy fit when she saw that I'd been to Malaysia. What were you doing in Malaysia? Do you have family in Malaysia? A third came over and asked similar questions and then I was led into a room where some geeky guy, who was the exact spit of McLovin from Superbad, was pulling on his marigolds. They took my passport away for "further inspection". I'm pretty they cloned it and there's some Mossad agent using my identity. When they were satisfied that I wasn't planning to blow them all to smithereens they let me go. On the plus side one of the teenage burds escorted me through the airport so I didn't have to wait in any more queues. Despite its reputation, I found Tel Aviv to be a pretty wild place. The pubs were open all night and Israeli women are easily the best looking that I have ever seen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamski Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, tongue_tied_danny said: I've been to Israel too and I had no problem whatsoever getting in. Getting out was another story. I was queuing at the airport when some teenage girl in uniform approached me and started asking questions. Who are you? What are you doing in Israel? Etc. When she finished another came across and asked similar questions. This one looked through my passport and nearly had a hairy fit when she saw that I'd been to Malaysia. What were you doing in Malaysia? Do you have family in Malaysia? A third came over and asked similar questions and then I was led into a room where some geeky guy, who was the exact spit of McLovin from Superbad, was pulling on his marigolds. They took my passport away for "further inspection". I'm pretty they cloned it and there's some Mossad agent using my identity. When they were satisfied that I wasn't planning to blow them all to smithereens they let me go. On the plus side one of the teenage burds escorted me through the airport so I didn't have to wait in any more queues. Despite its reputation, I found Tel Aviv to be a pretty wild place. The pubs were open all night and Israeli women are easily the best looking that I have ever seen. Our experience of getting out was similar. My passport had stamps from several countries on their watch list, and prompted questions by a deadpan teenager on the security desk who couldn’t understand why I might possibly be interested in visiting Morocco, Egypt, Malaysia, etc. She finished her questioning with a matter-of-fact ‘we have reason to believe you might have a bomb in your luggage’ before sending me off to a room like the one you described. Took 3+ hours to get to the departure lounge from walking in the door of the airport. It’s certainly an interesting country. The world views were pretty extreme (e.g. the guy on a tour we were on of the Muslim quarter of the Jerusalem old city who couldn’t stop talking about terrorists, bombs, etc; the group of LADS at the table beside us In a bar full of chat about how great America was at war stuff, etc). Fully agree about the women though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tongue_tied_danny Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Adamski said: Our experience of getting out was similar. My passport had stamps from several countries on their watch list, and prompted questions by a deadpan teenager on the security desk who couldn’t understand why I might possibly be interested in visiting Morocco, Egypt, Malaysia, etc. She finished her questioning with a matter-of-fact ‘we have reason to believe you might have a bomb in your luggage’ before sending me off to a room like the one you described. Took 3+ hours to get to the departure lounge from walking in the door of the airport. It’s certainly an interesting country. The world views were pretty extreme (e.g. the guy on a tour we were on of the Muslim quarter of the Jerusalem old city who couldn’t stop talking about terrorists, bombs, etc; the group of LADS at the table beside us In a bar full of chat about how great America was at war stuff, etc). Fully agree about the women though. I never made it to Jerusalem, which I now regret. I just spent the week in Tel Aviv lazing on the beach and drinking Goldstar beer. I was sitting in a cafe one afternoon. There was a group of teenage girls at the next table wearing IDF uniforms. They were slurping down milkshakes and playing with their iPhones. Seems a bit strange that one of the most notorious armed forces on the planet are a bunch of gawky schoolkids. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 A helpful compare and contrast session there between a now standard European year round sun destination and the sheer pit of immorality that visiting DPRK involves. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 This time last year I was in St Helena. It was strange because it was very different but also very much the same. Located in the middle of the South Atlantic it was more than a thousand miles from anywhere else yet when I went into a shop it was similar to any number of Highland villages, selling the same sort of things , same electric plugs and same coins and similar conversations. The two DVD rental shops were a bit nostalgic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tongue_tied_danny Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Fullerene said: This time last year I was in St Helena. It was strange because it was very different but also very much the same. Located in the middle of the South Atlantic it was more than a thousand miles from anywhere else yet when I went into a shop it was similar to any number of Highland villages, selling the same sort of things , same electric plugs and same coins and similar conversations. The two DVD rental shops were a bit nostalgic. I read an article online a few weeks ago about Tristan Da Cunha. It's not exactly easy to get to... https://www.google.com/amp/s/matadornetwork.com/read/drink-remote-bar-world-albatross/%3famp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 3 hours ago, tongue_tied_danny said: I read an article online a few weeks ago about Tristan Da Cunha. It's not exactly easy to get to... https://www.google.com/amp/s/matadornetwork.com/read/drink-remote-bar-world-albatross/%3famp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Chernobyl, although as plenty folk go there I'm not sure it would be considered that strange. I would also like to wander about the Favelas in Rio although I believe this is considered dangerous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 2 hours ago, 101 said: Chernobyl, although as plenty folk go there I'm not sure it would be considered that strange. I would also like to wander about the Favelas in Rio although I believe this is considered dangerous. Chernobyl would be very interesting. I know people who have went and it looked like an interesting time. I've played a Modern Warfare 2 mission which says you're right about the favelas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKMAN Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Niagara Falls, Ontario. If you know, you know.An utter shithole of a place, Blackpool with a waterfall. Whereas Niagara on the lake, is a stunning little town. I believe it has one of the highest average house prices, in North America. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, MONKMAN said: An utter shithole of a place, Blackpool with a waterfall. Whereas Niagara on the lake, is a stunning little town. I believe it has one of the highest average house prices, in North America. Niagara on the lake is beautiful and if you go there you're not far from the cable car across the Rapids at the bottom of the falls or a brilliant vin yard for ice wine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Capital Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 8 hours ago, MONKMAN said: An utter shithole of a place, Blackpool with a waterfall. It's just a bizarre town - the area around the bus/train station looked like something from the wild west. The Clifton Hill area near the waterfalls was just horrendous - like some sort of post-apocalyptic Disneyland. Niagara Falls, New York was a wee bit better - nice park on the opposite side but not a lot to see. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 It's all the rage these days but I always fancied the silk road. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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